Which tank softener for Quickmill Andreja Premium? - Page 3

Water analysis, treatment, and mineral recipes for optimum taste and equipment health.
emradguy
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#21: Post by emradguy »

Gig103 wrote:Tonight I refilled my half-empty reservoir with distilled water which will bring my calcium hardness down. I'm hoping that's enough for the scale buildup for the moment. The reviews on the cation exchange is mixed, but if it doesn't cause a problem pumping, I don't see how it could hurt having it inline. I'm tempted to just keep on mixing distilled/tap water, it will run me less than a buck a week and save me the effort of having to recharge the exchanger.

Now, if someone tells me this is a bad idea and I want the cat-ion exchange instead, I will certainly be listening!
I agree, recharging the exchanger regularly is a PIA, and one of the main reasons I really don't like them. Besides that, you really don't know what the out[put is, in terms of quality. To do so, you have to draw water off the group or boiler, let it cool and then run some quality tests.

If you really want to know how effective your method is, and what the correct distilled:tap ratio is, you need to invest in some water quality testing equipment (which I think you should do anyways). Overall, it's pretty cheap. You can get a TDS meter, and API GH/KH kit and even an API pH kit for less than $25 - all in.

Better to know than to guess, right?
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BillRedding
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#22: Post by BillRedding »

emradguy,

...or if you know an aquarium hobbyist: You could borrow HIS/HER water-testing equipment! ;-)

I don't recommend drawing-off water from the group-head, however, as coffee particles are likely to be in the water -- you'll even SEE them -- and they'd give a higher (and false) reading on one's TDS meter...if it measures particulates/solids also and not just minerals/ions in the water.

BTW, thanks for your earlier list of 5 options re: controlling the water-quality (hardness) issue for reservoir espresso machines...I need to find my best solution, too.

Having an HX machine, I like to use lots of water to flush it out, but not just for cooling flushes, to keep water fresh and help reduce scaling so I run the hot-water dispenser/wand occasionally. Lugging gallons of distilled water (if I got back to my 80/20 (or even 90/10) distilled/tap-water ratio mix) from the car up to my 3rd floor apt. gets tiring. Literally. :-(

But I don't think I use enough of it -- and quickly enough -- to sign-up for a regular distilled water (5-gallon blue bottle/jug) delivery service.

-- BR

emradguy
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#23: Post by emradguy »

BillRedding wrote:emradguy,

...or if you know an aquarium hobbyist: You could borrow HIS/HER water-testing equipment! ;-)
an excellent idea, if you have that resource, but again, the stuff is pretty cheap and will last you a couple of years before any reagents expire.
BillRedding wrote:I don't recommend drawing-off water from the group-head, however, as coffee particles are likely to be in the water -- you'll even SEE them -- and they'd give a higher (and false) reading on one's TDS meter...if it measures particulates/solids also and not just minerals/ions in the water.
I agree, but if you're stuck with an in tank reservoir, what your only options of testing how effective the exchanger is are samples from the boiler outputs. If one is to choose the group for this purpiose, I would hope he/she would have the sense to do it after a thorough cleaning. (perhaps a backflush and appropriate rinse session?)
BillRedding wrote:BTW, thanks for your earlier list of 5 options re: controlling the water-quality (hardness) issue for reservoir espresso machines...I need to find my best solution, too.
You're quite welcome...and good luck. lugging gallon jugs of water up three flights of stairs does not sound like any fun at all - though I suppose you could do bicep curls on the way and chalk it up to exercise
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Gig103 (original poster)
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#24: Post by Gig103 (original poster) »

emradguy wrote:I agree, recharging the exchanger regularly is a PIA, and one of the main reasons I really don't like them. Besides that, you really don't know what the out[put is, in terms of quality. To do so, you have to draw water off the group or boiler, let it cool and then run some quality tests.

If you really want to know how effective your method is, and what the correct distilled:tap ratio is, you need to invest in some water quality testing equipment (which I think you should do anyways). Overall, it's pretty cheap. You can get a TDS meter, and API GH/KH kit and even an API pH kit for less than $25 - all in.

Better to know than to guess, right?
Ron, I decided, as I already have distilled water around the house for other purposes, to try mixing for the time being. I have a pool kit that measures calcium hardness, alkalinity, and pH. Do you have recommendations on what values I should be aiming for? I figure the CH is the one that causes build up, but I don't want to go too low (the long water FAQ went over my head but did mention 50ppm for flavor - I don't know if that's GH or CH)?

emradguy
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#25: Post by emradguy replying to Gig103 »

The SCAA website recommendations are:

GH = 68 (17-85)
KH = 40
TDS = 150 (75-250)
pH = 7.0 (6.5-7.5)

GH = general hardness
KH = (german) carbonate hardness, aka alkalinity

It took me a few times through the Insanely Long... document to get a basic understanding, and that was going slowly and stopping to think about things. I think that kind of effort will get you through it too. I've also heard great things about the Water Quality Assurance Board (Chicago-based I believe) website from the commercial sales manager at Mavea, but I haven't been to their site yet to see for myself.
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brianl
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#26: Post by brianl »

For what it's worth, I mix berkey filtered water and distilled zero water. I would avoid tap unless you know it's not that badly contaminated. If you can't drink the water by itself it won't be good espresso.

I go for 100 TDs with 70ppm hardness

Gig103 (original poster)
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#27: Post by Gig103 (original poster) »

emradguy wrote:The SCAA website recommendations are:

GH = 68 (17-85)
KH = 40
TDS = 150 (75-250)
pH = 7.0 (6.5-7.5)

GH = general hardness
KH = (german) carbonate hardness, aka alkalinity

It took me a few times through the Insanely Long... document to get a basic understanding, and that was going slowly and stopping to think about things. I think that kind of effort will get you through it too. I've also heard great things about the Water Quality Assurance Board (Chicago-based I believe) website from the commercial sales manager at Mavea, but I haven't been to their site yet to see for myself.
Thanks! I found that page and read about how it's takes flavor into consideration. I also did some other searching and found this "hardness" scale that talks in PPM addition to grains, so that it can be balanced for scale build up vs. the SCAA you posted.
Hardness is usually expressed in grains per gallon (or ppm) as calcium carbonate equivalent.
Degree of         Grains     ppm
Hardness          per gal   (mg/L)
--------          -------   ------
Soft              <1.0      <17.0
Slightly Hard     1.0-3.5   17.1-60
Moderately Hard   3.5-7.0   60-120
Hard              7.0-10.5  120-180
Very Hard         >10.5     >180
Edit to add source: http://www.wqa.org/Learn-About-Water/Pe ... e-Deposits

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