canuckcoffeeguy wrote:If you can't add to your 7-10K budget for a grinder, and still get a GS3 or Slayer, you could look at the Vesuvius or new LM Linea Mini. You'd still have ample room for an excellent grinder.

In terms of the grinder. I have narrowed it down to something along the lines of the mazzer mini or mazzer lux D without the dozer given my home use.

waroros wrote:In GS/3 you can only play with temperature, and preinfusion time, compared to Slayer, prebrew flow rate, prebrew time, full brew pressure, a bit of flow profiling. A lot more brew style can be accomplished. The most important is that you could brew a light roast coffee.

I beg to differ, unless you are referring to the GS/3 AV. Here is a video to show my GS/3 Strada MP doing what you mention. I have full control of the flow/pressure from start to finish and everywhere in-between.

Javierati wrote:In terms of the grinder. I have narrowed it down to something along the lines of the mazzer mini or mazzer lux D without the dozer given my home use.

If you are looking at those, you may want to go with something like the new Linea Mini instead. The better machines deserve much better grinders.

Just my $.02.

uscfroadie wrote:If you are looking at those, you may want to go with something like the new Linea Mini instead. The better machines deserve much better grinders.

Just my $.02.

GS3/MP with pressure gauge, or GS3/MP with strada group head do provide pressure profiling ability. Thank for correction.
I'm also agree that both machine deserve better grinder.

Which grinder would you recommend for these machines?

Regarding your new kitchen, plan enough space, electricity, an a water line, and a return to the sink whatever the outcome is.

I fully understand your point of view. All I learned is that no machine will pull you great shots by itself.
From where you are right now, any rotary driven commercial machine will be a big step regarding
stability, steam volume. When you mastered the commercial machine level, the next stage is
pressure profiling. Do you really want to pressure profile your shots? As LM said most Barista never use it.

Anyhow, all machines Synesso, LM GS3 MP, Slayer One Group, KvdW are well engineered and will
provide you a good return in joy. Nobody smart will tell you what machine to choose, as from my point of view,
it comes down to how you like the ergonomics.

Grinder, yes it's important too.There are a lot of grinders to choose from, I like the Anfim Barista pro, the Mahlkoenig KS30
or a conical one like the Mazzer Kony E. Again most matters what you like, how easy it's for you to work with.
Maybe even a handgrinder will be the best solution, at least when you wake up before your neighbours, wife, kids....

Recently someone with a similar question approached me: I have a 6000$ Budget what should I buy?
My answer was:
A used commercial machine for around $2000
A used commercial grinder for around $1000
A professional service of it around $1000
All the little things (Tamper, Tamperstation, milkjuggs etc.) $200
Barista courses $800
Coffee $1000

Just my $0.02

If you're looking to spend 7-10k on a top of the line single group machine, I think most people here would say it really deserves to be paired with a top notch grinder. You wouldn't want the grinder limiting what you get out of any machine like that. There are a gazillion threads in the buying advice and grinder forums on different models and comparisons between them and a lot of good information by many people with loads of experience with different machines. Search and read a bit and I'm sure you'll note a few models that will fit your needs.
To give you an idea, Ceado e-92, Compak E10, Elektra Nino and Mazzer Robur are examples of popular top of the line conicals. Mahlkönig K30, Compak e8, Mazzer Major, Anfim Super Caimano and Nuova Simonelli Mythos are among the top end flat burr espresso grinders. Good luck with your decisions.

Javierati wrote:I am not a professional barista by any chance and have never owned a commercial machine. I am a regular espresso aficionado in search for a great espresso machine. I have owned several good affordable entry level espresso machines like the Rancilio Silvia which I currently own. Currently I am in the process of moving and designing my kitchen. I want to upgrade my espresso machine and buy one that would last me 15 + years. It may be too much machine for my barista skills at the moment but I want to grow with it and fine tune my skills...

Your enthusiasm is wonderful.

The best place to start -- even before buying a machine -- is barista skills.

In addition to learning how to make better coffee, with luck you'll develop a relationship with someone who can give you good buying advice. The number of voices here, each singing its own tune, can be confusing.

These two high end machines seem to provide the room to grow as a barista.

Certainly true, but there are a lot of other machines which will allow equal growth.

I'm not going to talk about money because it's pretty clear you can afford whatever you decide is "the best;" and a great deal of the pleasure for many people pursuing any hobby comes with owning exactly what they want. Coffee is an aesthetic pursuit anyway, and cost benefit analysis doesn't apply the in the same way to different people when "user satisfaction" is one of the primary elements.

When it comes to money, you're the best judge on how much to spend. There's nothing much we can tell you; but we can help you understand what you'll get for your money.

The pressure profile aspect of the slayer is an interesting concept that I have never tried before (only owned simple single boiler machines). You can tell me if this aspect of the machine is worth the money or if I should not pay attention to this feature.

It's not worth it to me. It might be to you. I'm not a huge fan of levers and haven't had much experience with drinking "pressure profiled" espresso pulled on a pump driven profiler. Rather, I'm an HX guy, and get all the tailoring capability (and aesthetic pleasure) I want from my Cimbali. But my tastes aren't universal.

For the little it's worth, more than half the people I know who have pressure profilers either don't use the capability beyond four to six seconds of line preinfusion, or use the same profile for all coffees (which seems to me to be more or less the same thing).

I don't know what the possibilities are in Birmingham in terms of sampling shots pulled on different styles of machines. Might be worth doing a couple of espresso vacations to places which have livelier scenes to just get a better feel.

I do not need the machine to be portable.

Portability is one of the GS/3's selling points. However, even if you set it into concrete, it's still a great machine. You could kind of kill two birds with one stone by buying a GS/3 with a Strada group (about the same price with the mod as a stock GS/3). The Strada group allows a degree of pressure profiling, but nothing as controllable or sophisticated as the Slayer, Synesso Hydra or Vesuvius.

If I were looking at an ultra high end DB -- with or without pressure profiling -- my short list would be the GS/3 and Synesso (the Synesso by reputation only). The Slayer seems to be in an unreliable teething phase. The Vesuvius does as well, plus it seems to an evolving design. And when you're spending mega bucks on a machine you should at least get temped hot water from the tap. The LM Linea Mini looks interesting, but LM machines have a tradition of problems during their introductory periods, and the limited preinfusion bothers me. To be clear, nearly all of this is pure speculation. Not only do I not have time on any of those other than the GS/3, I haven't really done the research.

More me: I prefer "volumetric" groups (which would mean you can't add a Strada group to a GS/3), because -- even though I usually cut my shots by eye -- they're good cover when my attention defects or if you're steaming while you pull.

I would use this machine for about 6 cups a day; with the occasional 25-30 during parties.

Obviously, 6 cups/day is no problem for a modern single group. 25-30 after dinner is another issue. On a fast, pump driven, single group, using a fast grinder, a skilled (home) barista can pull about 8 drinks -- including steaming milk -- every 10 minutes; assuming, that is, those drinks don't require complicated pressure profiling. It also means you're chained to the machine.

A fast barista might be able to keep a similar pace on a two group lever, but that's just a guess on my part.

GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER

Flat or Conical? I prefer conicals, but that doesn't mean you will. Either way, figure on spending somewhere between $1500 - $3,000 for an ultimate, espresso-only grinder.

Rich

boar_d_laze wrote:Obviously, 6 cups/day is no problem for a modern single group. 25-30 after dinner is another issue. On a fast, pump driven, single group, using a fast grinder, a skilled (home) barista can pull about 8 drinks -- including steaming milk -- every 10 minutes; assuming, that is, those drinks don't require complicated pressure profiling. It also means you're chained to the machine.

A fast barista might be able to keep a similar pace on a two group lever, but that's just a guess on my part.

Rich,

I fully share your view, beside on a 2 group commercial lever & an Mazzer SJ Doser everyone, after a short introduction, prepares you 8 cappucinos/flat white within around 3 minutes. And no I don't suggest to buy a commercial lever, here.

Back to the selection of the espresso machine, there may be factors that constrain your candidates beyond price, aesthetics, features or preference. Some otherwise wonderful machines may require 220V or more amps than your circuit can supply. The single-group Slayer must be plumbed in - if that's not possible, you'll need a machine that can run from a reservoir.

And size may be a factor too - depending on your counter or location dimensions. For example, the "cube" (width x depth x height) of the single-group Slayer is just over 40% larger than that of the GS/3. Hopefully, none of the W/D/H dimensions makes it a non-starter, but the overall volume and "presence" may affect your choice.

boar_d_laze wrote:
The Slayer seems to be in an unreliable teething phase.

Rich

I own a single group Slayer and I authored the thread about the single group's temperature stability. It was a bad title because most of the problem was with the display. When the pump turned on the temp. display went nuts but usually not the "real" temp. I also noticed some erratic temp readings using Scace device but these were occasional and far less than indicated on slayer. All that was required was a simple firmware upgrade. I got very angry when the folks at slayer kept telling me week after week that it would be ready next week.
I would like let all know that I have had the firmware upgrade for some time and the temp readings by Slayer gauge and Scace are stable. Only other issue of which I am aware was a number of users had pressure stats that failed and Slayer sent out a fix that put the sensor away from the heat. My Slayer has worked flawlessly since these two upgrades. Currently I'm pulling shots with Panama Esmeralda Private reserve Geisha. It is delicious. I never could use a coffee like this with conventional espresso machines. My last machine was a La Marzzocco GS 3 with a "Stada mod" first described by our own and fellow motorcyclist, Danetrainer (thank you, Pat). Using Strada mod I could pull shots that to me were comparable to the Slayer. I could emulate the Slayer by just letting water trickle down and wick through the puck in a low relatively low flow low pressure environment. With the Slayer it is far easier to do this and I love it's looks. I just love those Exoskeleton "X"es on the sides. Crustaceans have exoskeletons, and I like Lobster. And I love my Slayer