Too rich for my blood? :(

[Adrock]

I've been pining to buy an espresso machine for years now, reading this forum and others on and off for years. Now that I've graduated from college and have a job, that dream seems all that much closer. However, I don't want to compromise on a cheap machine simply to fill that desire with the intent to buy a better one later. I want a machine I can be proud of, and one that I will not feel the need to replace for many, many years.

The unfortunate side effect of wanting this so badly and reading these forums so much is that my desires and expectations are fairly high. The cheapest machine I'd be delighted to get is the Lusso. However, it seems that the price has risen by over $200 in the past couple years (unless my memory is mistaken). Furthermore, I'll have to buy a $500 grinder to get the most out of my machine. I currently have a Solis Maestro Plus that I've used for home-roasted press pot coffee, but I understand that this grinder just doesn't deliver for espresso. High-quality espresso (I want at least the potential for "god shots") just seems out of my budget at this time. Add to this time pressure: in a few years I will attend Grad school for anywhere from two to six years.

I see three choices in this dilemma: 1) I spend a perhaps unjustifiably huge proportion of my income on a new machine and grinder. 2) I wait until I have the funds to comfortably buy a machine and grinder, which will be at least 10 years. 3) I buy a cheap grinder and machine which will allow me to make fairly good espresso; if this fails to meet my expectations, this too might be an unjustifiable expenditure.

A fourth option could be to buy a used machine. However, I do not have confidence in my ability to repair a machine, and I would not want to have to start replacing parts right away; this could easily take the pleasure out of the experience, especially if I damage something.

Is there an alternative I'm overlooking? Am I exaggerating the dilemma and/or overestimating problems? Or am I doomed to postpone this wonderful hobby for years to come?

Desperately seeking help,
Adam.

[zin1953]

What's your budget? What do you drink -- espresso? cappuccino? latte? All three?

Adam, espresso can be expensive, but it doesn't have to be. I started out with a moka pot and a stovetop steamer. For 20 years, I had a Gaggia Coffee ($299) and a Gaggia MDF grinder ($199), and was very happy with that combination! OK, then I got more serious about it, and have spent lots of money on an expensive setup. But guess what? Had I decided 20 years ago to wait until I could get the set up I have now, I wouldn't have had a machine at home for probably 15-20 years, and would have spent far more money at cafés over that period of time than I actually did.

People do not -- OK, most people do not save up and buy a Ferrari or a Rolls-Royce as their first car. So, too, it is with espresso: most people do not run out and buy a high-end machine -- be it dual-boiler, HX, or lever machine; whether it's a La Marzocco or Elektra or Mirage Idrocompresso -- as a first machine. Most people, indeed, never buy an LM or Elektra or Idrocompresso, just as most people never buy a Ferrari or a Rolls, but neither do they stay in their VW Beetle, Ford Focus, or Toyota Corolla forever (let alone Corvair, Pinot or Yugo!).

I would check out craigslist. I'd check out eBay. I'd be realistic about my budget, and buy a good grinder first. Think about how much you spend on your espressos/cappuccinos/lattes now. Think about how much you'll spend over the next decade while WAITING to buy a machine . . .

My advice is to get something that will last for a decade or more. Think Gaggia and/or Rancilio. You can still get a new MDF (for example) for $199 with a little searching. That will last you for YEARS before you move up to a Mazzer, Macap, Cimbali MaxHybrid, a Malkönig, or a Versalab . . . whatever!

You can find a Gaggia Classic or Rancilio Silvia on craigslist, eBay or new online and cut your away-from-home coffee expenditures in half! (That's an expression -- your costs will actually be a tiny fraction of daily visits to *$, or your local café.)

Once you're out of grad school, you can start thinking about "better" machine if necessary. But even with my Gaggia Coffee-and-MDF setup, I was making drinks better than many cafés. So my advice is "Don't Wait." Whether new or used, get something for now and enjoy it now.

Don't postpone joy . . .

Cheers,
Jason

P.S. I know that none of these short-term recommendations are lever machines. That's because my first espresso machine (a Pavoni Euriopicola EPC-8) was $299 when I bought it, and now retails for $799 or more! If I were you, I'd start with a pump-driven, single-boiler/dual-use machine like the Gaggia or Rancilio . . .

[Phaelon56]

Budget $300 for the grinder and shop around for either a new Rocky or a decent used Super Jolly. Then budget $800 to $1,000 for a new or gently used E61 style espresso machine. If you were already thinking $500 for a grinder and $500 for the Lusso your overall budget hasn't really changed much if you can spend less on a grinder but still get a good one and then spend a bit more on the espresso machine.

If you're not the type who easily gets infected by upgrade-itis then the suggested combination will satisfy you for many, many years to come and is definitely capable not only of delivering god shots when properly used but also providing a good level of consistency in your output.

[peacecup]

A $300 used lever machine and a $50 hand grinder.

[grong]

A $300 used lever machine and a $50 hand grinder.

Super recommendation.

[grong]

Whether new or used, get something for now and enjoy it now.

Don't postpone joy . . .

Great advice!

I have had many espresso machines and grinders over the past 20 plus years, and I have enjoyed the espresso from all of them (including Gaggia Coffee, Rancilio Audrey, Isomac Zaffiro, Rancilio Rocky, and Macap M4).

[shadowfax]

Yeah, I agree with many of the other posters. If you really don't see yourself being able to afford a "high-end" setup in the next ten years, it's silly to just not get anything. You can produce exceptional espresso with minimal investment--cheaper machines will sacrifice convenience, consistency, and will not offer the absolute best espresso you can make--you probably won't be able to make a better cup than a seasoned barista at a top shop rocking professionally roasted beans, a La Marzocco GS3 and a Mazzer Robur. That probably is too rich for your blood, as well it probably should be if you are just out of college with a BS!

Don't get something crummy, like a Breville machine and a Baratza Virtuoso, but there are a myriad of cheap options that will get you a darn good cup of coffee, a setup for anywhere from $350-$1500 for machine and grinder. Think about the cost over 10 years while you wait for your dream setup, if you still want it by then... there are 120 months in the next 10 years, so you are talking less than $3 per month for a $350 setup, or less than $13 per month for something nicer. Surely you would spend far more in cafes in the next ten years, even if you factor in buying the best coffee and milk for the next ten years. You could consider the purchase like leasing a machine and grinder till you can buy the setup you really want, and from that perspective, it's a pretty affordable hobby, isn't it? If you're interested in making your own espresso, getting a good setup is not too difficult to justify. I could think of hobbies that could run you a lot more--like having a taste for fine wine. If you drank as much wine as I drink coffee, even if you bought modest wines, you'd be ahurtin'... (sorry for the double entendre)

[zin1953]

I'm not hurtin' after 35 years in the wine trade . . . .

[Adrock]

Thanks for the advice, everybody!

Luckily, the first time I searched there was a La Peppina on ebay for $300. It sounded like the seller had thoroughly cleaned it and repaired it, so I decided to spring for it!

Now onto the grinder!

If I were to buy a manual hand grinder, what would be a good brand/model to look for? I've read that the new Zassenhaus grinders are poorly constructed relative to their earlier models. And how much of a pain is it to grind? I'm new to this, so I expect plenty of sink shots for a month or so.

Thanks again,
Adam.

[samgiles]

Hi Adam,
Glad to hear you didn't give up Once you've mastered the lever, I know you're going to be really happy. I don't have a peppina but with my Europiccola, I can pull way better shots than most cafes around here. I too have heard that new Zassenhaus aren't as good and buying second hand ones off ebay is a bit hit and miss too. Your best bet is to check out the refurbished hand grinders at
https://www.orphanespresso.com
They really know espresso and particularly lever machines. Their grinders are all checked for espresso capability so you'll know what you're getting. As far as using them is concerned, it takes a bit of muscle and patience to grind a shot. It's up to you whether you like to work that hard or not. I tend to use my Rocky mostly because I'm lazy. I do take the Zas away with me though.
Sam.

[tjkoko]

So I can get by quite well using either my Zassenhaus 25 year old Turkish grinder or pretty much any quality middle eastern grinder that yields a superfine coffee powder - as THE manual grinder for a Ponte Vecchio Lusso?!?!? Need a little reassurance here.

[peacecup]

hand-grinder-jive-photo-essay-t4482.html

[peacecup]

RE: the PV Lusso: I have the Export, which uses the same group, so the grinders should be fine. Search for any of my threads on the Export or grinders - its all hand ground. Check out the videos '- these things work.

The hand grinders vary a little '- I guess most Zasses are OK, but I have not used any. If its grinding towards the turkish end, it will choke the Lusso. Then you'll just back it off a little.

With the grinders I use the adjustment is very precise - a quarter turn or less will result in noticeable differences in brew pressure.

If you have further questions just ask.

PC

[tjkoko]

Then I'll stick to my Zass since, as opposed to my Turkish made grinder, it's adjustable as far as the grind goes.

A couple of questions:

In researching the machines I'd like to get (presses as opposed to the $1500 semi-autos which are out of my reach), it seems that the cheaper the machine, the more finagling must be executed to get a decent drink. Is this true?

Does the PVL make a good cap as well as latte? I just wanna' pull a couple of caps or lattes in the morning.

[Adrock]

Update: I have also now purchased a Zassenhaus 169DG mill. My original post was way too fatalistic and dramatic. I'm incredibly excited to get my machine and grinder, even though I payed just over $500 total for them.