Three good beginner espressos please

[signguy]

I'll be receiving my new espresso machine & grinder tomorrow. There are two coffee roasters in my town, so I'll definitely buy some of their beans. I'd also like to have a benchmark or two that I can use to compare the local beans to. I would welcome any & all suggestions on beans to buy over the internet.
1) Your dropdead best choice, possibly too expensive to brew every day. (kinda like Johnny Walker Blue Label)
2) Your every day brew, (more in the Dewars- Johnny Red class)

Thanks for the input.

John

[RegulatorJohnson]

hi .

you will get lots of suggestions.

but i think that starting out with a coffee you can get easily and also regularly is best. freshness is paramount so the local roaster is probably the best choice for now. use the same beans, notice how they change as they age/stale they will go through flavor changes as they age.

mail order costs lots of money and if you are learning you will learn more with the same beans over a long period of time as opposed to changing beans often.

later on as you become more skilled and learn your machine you can move on to other beans and know that the one pound you have of the ethiopian harar horse will not go to waste, not only that you will know that you have helped it reach its full potential.

if you just go and buy some spendy beans and waste most of them dialing in your tamp and machine, technique, etc. you may end up wasting a lot of those precious beans on sink shots that gush and chokers that dont even make a drop.

im not saying dont try the good stuff , im saying there is a lot to learn initially, as far as technique, using the same beans during this period will teach you more than using different beans during your initial learning curve.

thanks for your time.

jon

[lparsons21]

Hi John,

I see in another thread that you've joined the 'Alex Revolution'! Good choice, I love mine.

Now to beans, I agree with all that has been said about it.

To add to that, when you've tried the local roaster and some on the internet, start reading about roasting your own. There are a few advantages to doing it.

1. You get to play with roast level. I tend to lighter roasts that emphasize the natural flavors of the particular bean over the roasted taste. Most roasters that I dealt with had a roast level that they preferred for a particular bean.

2. Green beans are very cheap compared to roasted. Figure about $5/lb average for great beans from a great source, maybe cheaper if you are willing to gamble on the beans.

3. It is easy to do. From dog bowl and heatgun to commercially produced home roasters, pricing from about zero to $700 and everything in between, all are easy and simple to learn and enjoy.

Do some reading at sweetmarias.com, an excellent source for roasting information and products.

[another_jim]

There's disagreements about the best way to start. Many people will tell you to concentrate on getting a consistent 27 to 30 second, 2 ounce, lots of crema shot, time after time, using just one coffee. I personally think this might be good for someone starting out as a barista in a cafe, but that it's pretty gradgrind for someone who wants to enjoy the coffee. I would advise using lots of coffees, making 10 and 60 seconds shots (this will happen pretty automatically as you adjust the grinder), tasting them all carefully, paying attention ot the colors, textures and flavors, and trying to make sense of the variations you get. Consistency is important; but it's more important to know what the possibilities are, and which one to aim for.

[HB]

Only three? To avoid playing favorites, I'll pick one from each of the five HB sponsors: Counter Culture Coffee Toscano, Intelligentsia Coffee Kid O's Organic, Rocket Coffee Roasters Dark Star, Caffe Fresco Ambrosia, and Paradise Roasters Yirgacheffe. This forum's FAQs and Favorites points to other threads you may find interesting, e.g., Single Origin training wheels and Good coffees I've had recently.

[jesawdy]

Intelligentsia Coffee Kid O's Organic

Any reason for Kid O over Black Cat? I haven't tried Kid O yet, just finished my first pound of Black Cat, it didn't seem particularly fussy in any way.

[HB]

Oh, they both are good choices, but I limited myself to one per roaster.

[2xlp]

I'd go with Ambrosia from Caffe Fresco -- its rather forgiving on temp -- you can pull it a bit high or low and its still pretty good. Some of the other coffees mentioned need a bit more finesse in pulling right.

I also think the Dark Malinial SO from gimme coffee makes a good straight shot that is very forgiving to temp.

I'm going to strongly advocate you not home roast yet. Give it a year. Home roasting is fun and rewarding, but it introduces a ton of new variables on its own. Get exceedingly comfortable and proficient at pulling a shot, then think about home roasting. To add, beans cost ~ $5/lb green, but you lose ~25% mass. $5 for .77lb beans is still a good price -- but that + the energy cost + your time and there's no real savings per-pound : its a hobby and a fun one. But not a money saver.

[prof_stack]

I'm going to strongly advocate you not home roast yet. Give it a year. Home roasting is fun and rewarding, but it introduces a ton of new variables on its own. Get exceedingly comfortable and proficient at pulling a shot, then think about home roasting. To add, beans cost ~ $5/lb green, but you lose ~25% mass. $5 for .77lb beans is still a good price -- but that + the energy cost + your time and there's no real savings per-pound : its a hobby and a fun one. But not a money saver.

I mostly agree with this. Roasting became my hobby two years ago after homebrewing beer for 20 years lost its hops and fizz, so to speak.

I lose 15-20% mass each roast, depending on how far I take it. Roasting is ridiculously easy and the freshness of the beans is the clincher. Start cheap with a hot-air popper and learn the craft from there, adding equipment and technique when you are comfortable to do so. Money saver? Probably not, but then buying a fancy espresso machine is not cheap...

You'll be hooked once you grind the beans for the first time. Its addictive, so watch out!

[edwa]

It looks like you've received a lot of wise advice.

I would add that by trying a variety of beans you should be able to dial in your taste preferences. An example would be your question of why Kid O over Black Cat. My tastes prefer the nuttier taste of Kid O to the dark chocolate of Black Cat. As mentioned earlier the downside is shipping costs, they add up. I've been really fortunate to find a roaster practically in my backyard who makes a Decaf that I love. West Coast Roasting's Decaf Espresso Torro (wcrcompany.com), although his Decaf is not listed yet on the website. I believe Coffeegeek did a write up on the roaster. Another local is Supreme Bean's Organic Dolce Terra. I hear Intelligentsia is soon opening a place in L.A. I'll have to wait and see if it costs any less to get them there though I suspect they'll still be roasted in Chicago (?).

I'm still going through the long list of roasters mentioned on this site but have been keeping a list of preferences to narrow the list of favorites. I can see how this would lead to wanting to better learn the attributes of individual beans and create your own blend. I figure one step at a time and the demands of life will draw the limit line.

[lparsons21]

I mostly agree with this. Roasting became my hobby two years ago after homebrewing beer for 20 years lost its hops and fizz, so to speak.

I lose 15-20% mass each roast, depending on how far I take it. Roasting is ridiculously easy and the freshness of the beans is the clincher. Start cheap with a hot-air popper and learn the craft from there, adding equipment and technique when you are comfortable to do so. Money saver? Probably not, but then buying a fancy espresso machine is not cheap...

You'll be hooked once you grind the beans for the first time. Its addictive, so watch out!

I went to roasting because it was nearly impossible, if not just frustrating, to buy roasted coffee in small enough quantities to keep it fresh. And I started doing it almost at the same time I moved up from a cheap grinder and dept store espresso machine. I've never regretted it and I get coffee that is absolutely wonderful. Not to mention the big variety that I keep on hand these days.

I mentioned the cost, but it wasn't the reason I went to roasting. But literally from a cost standpoint, once you take out the cost of whatever roasting device you use, you end up with top quality gourmet beans for a Folgers price no matter how you calculate it.

[HB-Wantabe]

John,

I'm of the school of trying a lot of different roasts. I burned a lb. of one type when I first got my new toy, then I ordered different blends from this sites sponsors plus Stumptown. I have not been disappointed with any of them. I have been dialing in my palate at the same time as my technique. Both still suck but, I have time. The joy is in the journey.
i suppose you, like me, will quickly discover the stronger/more pronounced differences between blends and roasts, then w/time explore the nuances.

Enjoy and congratulations on your new equipment. Has it arrived yet?

[another_jim]

But literally from a cost standpoint, once you take out the cost of whatever roasting device you use, you end up with top quality gourmet beans for a Folgers price no matter how you calculate it.

Only if you enjoy the time spent on roasting, or else value it at slave wages.

[Marshall]

I'll be receiving my new espresso machine & grinder tomorrow. There are two coffee roasters in my town, so I'll definitely buy some of their beans. I'd also like to have a benchmark or two that I can use to compare the local beans to. I would welcome any & all suggestions on beans to buy over the internet.
1) Your dropdead best choice, possibly too expensive to brew every day. (kinda like Johnny Walker Blue Label)
2) Your every day brew, (more in the Dewars- Johnny Red class)

Thanks for the input.

John

This is a great time to get into espresso (or any kind of coffee). I think it's a golden age of roasting. It is almost head spinning how many talented and committed roasters are out there today, compared to 5 or 10 years ago.

Watch out for the home roasters . They love to evangelize and want everyone to join their hobby. I did it myself for a while. But the truth is that very few home roasters have the time, equipment, experience or talent to get the very best out of a bean. If you can afford shipping charges, go with the pros. If you have a great local roaster, even better. You'll save shipping charges. But, if you feel you need a new hobby and want to put more attention into roasting than brewing, be my guest!

I'm also a firm believer in keeping things simple at the start. Learn to grind and pack one (hopefully inexpensive) blend before trying to keep track of how to brew 5 different blends. You'll waste many pounds of coffee before you do a half-decent pour. Maybe I'm a cheapskate. But, tossing $18/lb. coffee down the drain would break my heart. I'd start with something from Trader Joe's (or Costco, if they roast in your town).

[lparsons21]

Only if you enjoy the time spent on roasting, or else value it at slave wages.

What? 20 minutes to do 1/2 lb?

[another_jim]

What? 20 minutes to do 1/2 lb?

1/2 pound green -- $2.50, 1/2 pound roasted -- $5.00. Value added $2.50. Time spent roasting 20 minutes, time spent setting up, breaking down, digging out greens, weighing etc, 10 minutes. Value added per hour, $5. Minimum wage, $5.15.

I'm a fairly fanatical homeroaster, but even the fairly flimsy justification one has for an espresso machine replacing those $3 cappas simply doesn't fly for homeroasting.

[lparsons21]

1/2 pound green -- $2.50, 1/2 pound roasted -- $5.00. Value added $2.50. Time spent roasting 20 minutes, time spent setting up, breaking down, digging out greens, weighing etc, 10 minutes. Value added per hour, $5. Minimum wage, $5.15.

I'm a fairly fanatical homeroaster, but even the fairly flimsy justification one has for an espresso machine replacing those $3 cappas simply doesn't fly for homeroasting.

Roasted for $5? What are you using, Folgers?

And you don't 'justify' roasting, espresso machines or grinders, you 'rationalize'!

Typical for me when I roast. Same time for setup and teardown and all that maintenance stuff. 20 minutes to roast while I read the paper. You don't have to watch that close. Well not unless you are using the dog-bowl/heatgun approach.

The biggest plus for me is that I have a wide variety of coffee at any given time to select from. I can roast as small as a 2.5 oz. batch to a 1/2 lb and everything in between. It is normal for me to have 3 or 4 different coffees roasted in various batch sizes at any given time.

Of course the fact that I'm retired and haven't hit a lick for a year might have some bearing too...

[tmaynard]

Your dropdead best choice, possibly too expensive to brew every day

I've said this before (in other threads): if you're not prepared to roast your own (not everyone is) .. then opt into a roaster "subscription" service -- like Sweet Maria's -- you won't be sorry.

You'll get (within a day or two of roasting) the finest beans on earth to load into your grinder. It just doesn't get any fresher! Now, you'll have to consume a pound or so of beans in a week or two -- far beyond my consumption limits -- but if it matches up with your consumption, more power to you! (If you're willing to throw away perfectly good beans then keep reading!)

You'll get the freshest coffee on earth, with copious notes on what to expect on taste, and each week you'll receive another dose to try. Where's the harm in that?!

Go for it And don't look back.

t++


'

[prof_stack]

I've said this before (in other threads): if you're not prepared to roast your own (not everyone is) .. then opt into a roaster "subscription" service -- like Sweet Maria's -- you won't be sorry.

You'll get (within a day or two of roasting) the finest beans on earth to load into your grinder. It just doesn't get any fresher! Now, you'll have to consume a pound or so of beans in a week or two -- far beyond my consumption limits -- but if it matches up with your consumption, more power to you! (If you're willing to throw away perfectly good beans then keep reading!)

You'll get the freshest coffee on earth, with copious notes on what to expect on taste, and each week you'll receive another dose to try. Where's the harm in that?! Go for it And don't look back. t++'

Although I first have to say that nothing in the mail matches the freshness of your own roasted beans, I will admit to the allure of having REALLY good stuff coming on a regular basis. As long as they don't start stacking up.

If nothing else, seeing/smelling/tasting what the pro's do can only help motivate the passionate home-roaster IF they want to spend the time learning and roasting.

[cannonfodder]

Very few home roasters will ever attain the same end result as a professional, experienced, artisan roaster. I never expect the exact same cup from a home roasted bean vs. the same bean roasted by a pro. Close, yes, but never the same. I home roast just because I enjoy it and I can play with bean combinations that I could not get from other roasters.

But to the OP question, Paradise Roasters and Caffe Fresco are good. A sample pack, like the one offered by Rocket Coffee Roasters is also a nice way to sample a roasters wares. Another favorite of mine is Metropolis Coffee.