Techniques for raising the bar on local espresso bar quality?

[Chert]

Or do you have any stories about trying?

I was looking forward to staying at a bed and breakfast a few months ago because the internet information mentioned espresso drinks with the breakfast. When I walked in and saw a two group E61 and our very kind host mentioned that he roasts his own coffee I thought I was in for a treat. However I was so wrong. I've read enough here to know that most readers know all the mistakes many espresso stands make. I don't think anything our host did to the coffee helped. I was there for two days and considered asking him to let me play, try to raise the bar but I lacked the resolve. The fact that the other three guests gushed about the coffee, didn't make me wish to sound like a snob. The man said his brother owns a La Pavoni, so I was quite mystified by the experience.

More locally I have asked a restaurant owner to allow me to use the Strong two group machine they have. I spent 10 minutes one day just frothing milk. It really helped to use the steam wand in my efforts to learn microfoam at home. Then today, I stopped by and asked the barista if I could pull my own shot since they were not busy. I've used their coffee (Millars Lucia) to good effect at home, and was quite pleased with the shot I pulled. Before I could get started however the proprietor, who had allowed me the opportunity in the first place, came out and said, "This isn't going to be a regular thing, is it?" in a tone that let me know I really wasn't welcome behind the bar. "Why are you wishing to do this?" I had talked to her about my interest weeks before when I initially asked to do so. I explained again that I was just trying to make an espresso shot the way I like them since I don't get it that way in most local cafes or espresso stands. "What is different about what you do?" So I proceeded to make my shot, dose, tamp with greater care than I have seen at the cafe, polish the puck and use the single shot setting in order to avoid the white tail I always have seen there with the double shot selection. The shot was pure brown crema except just at the tail and I pointed out to her the color change. I offered to let her try it. "I don't drink coffee, " was her response. They weren't busy with customers at the time, but I can imagine why a cafe owner would not wish to have a customer behind the counter, but on the other hand, isn't the customer always right?

[John P]

The only realistic way is to open a place of your own and show "how it's done".
I would say if you really have that much passion and are great at your "craft", then SHOW me. Show you can do it hundreds, thousands of times in a row, and then I might notice.
This is exactly why we opened... local places were not cutting it.
The only way to raise the bar is to set the bar and continue improving.

The other option is to move close to your favorite caffe/coffee shop, wherever that may be.

[zin1953]

Is the customer always right?

While it's a "tried-and-true" maxim of business that the customer is always right, it doesn't apply to egos. And that seems to be the problem you're running into. It's one thing to say, for example, that your steak is under-/over-done and send it back; it's quite another to tell the chef you want to come back to the kitchen and cook the steak yourself.

Your local restaurant owner might be willing to let you steam milk once -- maybe twice -- but she is clearly not taking it in the way YOU mean it. It seems as though she thinks not that you are trying to improve your HOME skills, so much as you're telling her that HER coffee is $#!+ and you can do a much better job! You see what I mean? Ego.

Now given the quality between most restaurant-made espresso and even a "poor" café-made espresso, your local restaurant's espresso may indeed be $#!+ -- she may even know it, and doesn't like to be reminded!

Me? I've given up ordering espresso after lunch or dinner in 95+ percent of the restaurants I go to . . . I've had much better luck at independent cafés who -- in some cases without me even asking specifically -- have offered to let me pull a shot or steam some milk when they aren't busy (think mid-afternoon, after the "post-lunch rush").

Finally, as I often tell my 13-year old, "It's not your job." In her case, I often need to remind her that we are the parents, and it's not her job to be a parent to her 11-year old sister; in your case, it's not your job to "raise the bar" of the B&B's espresso. Not only isn't that your job (your job is to be that of a guest, not a barista), but -- again -- you run up against the ego thing.

Cheers,
Jason

P.S. I don't understand one thing you wrote. "The man said his brother owns a La Pavoni, so I was quite mystified by the experience." While that's fine, why would that make him (as opposed to his brother) good at pulling shots? Isn't that a bit like saying My brother is a race car driver; how come I keep getting into traffic accidents?

[Chert]

I see what you mean. Also just because a person owns a fast motorcycle doesn't mean they know how to handle it. My assumption at the time was that if the fellow had experienced the coffee from the La Pavoni, then he should have an idea about good espresso, admittedly possibly a false assumption.

Cheers!

[roblumba]

Up front, there are usually several obstacles to overcome.

1) The grind likely needed to be dialed in. Most places have it too coarse, or just gushing. And the hopper is often full of preground coffee at the wrong grind setting. So you would have to convince them it's okay to just dump all that stuff, or use it in their drip machine.
2) Most places don't have a tamper, but use that cheap plastic thing attached to the grinder. So you'll be challenged to get a proper tamper and display proper "technique" with that plastic thingy.
3) You have no idea how fresh that coffee is or what kind it is. It may be that proper technique will just accentuate all the flaws and staleness even more.
4) You may struggle to get a good extraction because of the #2 and #3, and in addition, the temperature is not set properly. So you would have to be prepared to adjust the machine temperature.
5) This entire process might also likely be sabotaged by a dirty, unclean portafilter and a machine that hasn't been backflushed in over a month.

In your case, you also had a couple really severe obstacles to overcome. 6) The person you were showing your espresso making skills didn't drink coffee. 7) The current customers love the coffee.

All the above items result in a failed attempt to impress anyone with a noticeable improvement. #1-5 and #7 items are probably fairly common at most places. I currently find myself drinking Red Bull or drip coffee rather than espresso. Many places can actually make a cup of drip coffee that's 3 or 4 times better in comparison to their espresso. And usually, it's fairly cheap and easy to get a quick taste of their drip before committing to a full cup.

[Marshall]

It's one thing to develop a friendship with an owner and be invited behind the bar from time to time. But, to ask to "show them how it's done," is, frankly, obnoxious and would not be tolerated by many owners.

I think the best way to "raise the bar" is to tell whomever served you that the coffee was bad and then to take your business elsewhere, if it doesn't improve.

[HB]

Before I could get started however the proprietor, who had allowed me the opportunity in the first place, came out and said, "This isn't going to be a regular thing, is it?" in a tone that let me know I really wasn't welcome behind the bar.

Even if you're friendly with the owner, they may be nervous about potential liability, e.g., you burn yourself using their equipment. They surely have signed employment agreements with the hired help that spells out potential work hazards, but obviously that would not apply to a customer behind the bar.

The shot was pure brown crema except just at the tail and I pointed out to her the color change. I offered to let her try it. "I don't drink coffee, " was her response. They weren't busy with customers at the time, but I can imagine why a cafe owner would not wish to have a customer behind the counter, but on the other hand, isn't the customer always right?

If the cafe owner doesn't drink coffee, I don't think there's any hope of a fruitful discussion on how they can improve their product. They're into cafe ownership for the money or image. Then again, it doesn't hurt to share your feedback once; if they're complacent, move on.

[Marshall]

Let's be fair here. The OP did say it was a restaurant. Plenty of dedicated chefs and restaurant owners don't give a whit about espresso. It doesn't mean they started their businesses for shallow reasons.

[HB]

You have a point. Still, I don't think it's unfair to expect fine cuisine purveyors to serve competent coffee and espresso-based drinks, and yet they fail miserably in our area. I shared three such stories in So I went to Starbucks yesterday:

We've regrettably had similar experiences at fine restaurants:

• Second Empire - scalding hot cappuccino. After the best meal since leaving Paris, the after dinner cappuccino burned the roof of my mouth. Why didn't I complain? Why did I pay for it?
  
• Enoteca Vin - a very expensive refurbished Astoria; unfortunately the staff didn't know the grinder was adjustable and I saw the 90 second extraction. The waitress noted that I sipped and immediately set it aside. It wasn't on the bill.
  
• Bistro 64 (formally Cosmopolitan) - the waitress not only knew the roaster, she correctly listed the five coffees in their espresso blend. My wife joked that I was frequently disappointed by restaurant espresso drinks; the waitress offered to bring one and if I didn't like it, it would not be on the bill. A thin, blond, flavorless... bleech.

Three good restaurants in our area, three bad experiences. I really would love to order coffee after a nice dinner, but I'm tired of disappointments. Instead I recommend a port or sweet wine from the dessert menu.

[zin1953]

I have all but completely quit ordering espresso in restaurants after dinner. It seems impossible to get a good one, like on the order of 95%+ disappointments. And several places I know have excellent equipment, they just have waiters or bartenders who don't know WTF they're doing! I'd rather go home and make one myself, or stop at a "serious" (whatever that means) café.

[shadowfax]

As far as I am concerned, the main purpose of restaurants who serve espresso is to get someone to buy darn expensive full commercial, single group machines, run their innards to the ground, go out of business, and sell them secondhand and dirt cheap to some of the excellent people on this forum, who restore them and love them as they deserve to be loved.

[roblumba]

My last attempt at reforming a PBC was at DAC 2008 in San Diego, a conference for engineers. Right next to the Mentor booth was an espresso cart where the lady was making latte's. I just finished drinking a free beer served from the Mentor booth, so my stomach was a little full, so I just wanted an espresso. I know, a risky proposition considering espresso accentuates when the technique is flawed. I watched her extraction from the previous person and commented about how Barista competitions typically go for a 20-30 second extraction with 2 ounces of espresso. Her reaction was very telling because it was immediately obvious she was clueless. On top of this there was the impeccable timing of the previous customer who had just finished taking a sip and exclaimed that it was perfect! Perhaps he only heard a portion of my conversation and thought I was calling her a champion.

Anyhow, she started to make an espresso and I noticed that she didn't wash out the old coffee grounds. There was probably 5 grams of old coffee in there. She just put a couple clicks of new coffee on top and, used the plastic tamper thingy and pressed the button. I complained that she left old coffee in there and she explained that she did put new coffee in there. I replied that she didn't wash out the old coffee, and that I don't want old coffee in my drink. She washed it out, started again and pushed the button. It gushed out into 2 ounces in probably 5 seconds. I could see the color wash out of the stream from the portafilter until it was close to clear. Just when I thought it couldn't get worse, she looked into the cup, perhaps thinking it should be 4 ounces for a double, and pressed the button again! At this point, the extraction was just greyish, transparent, yuck.

I took one sip and was utterly surprised that coffee really could be messed up so badly, and further surprised that someone before me had thought it was the best (with a little milk and sugar added). I tossed it in the trash right next to her. She saw, but I still don't think she cared.

In contrast, the Starbucks drip coffee that most of the booths were serving was magnitudes better than that espresso. I should have known better to even ask for an espresso.

[Psyd]

My technique is to ask who, in the shop is, the rock-star barista. They either get all excited and explain that 'Bob' is really the guy that loves and knows the machine. I usually ask Bob why, or where he learned, or what made him the coffee-guy, and we have a chat about making espresso, the blend, the age of the beans, whatever. If he knows these these things, and I like the answers, and speaks with authority tries to impress me. If he doesn't, he's usually willing to get as much new input as he can.
In the case where there is no clear 'expert' in the shop, it's usually better to walk away.
I've occasionally been invited to 'demonstrate', and humbly acquiesce. It's turned into a bit of a jam occasionally, and the drinks are usually comped.

[John P]

My technique is to ask who, in the shop is, the rock-star barista.

I'm sure you often get this sort of response.
"ALL of our barista have had at least a week of training. Now would you like some expresso?"

[zin1953]

My technique is to ask who, in the shop is, the rock-star barista. They either get all excited and explain that 'Bob' is really the guy that loves and knows the machine. I usually ask Bob why, or where he learned, or what made him the coffee-guy, and we have a chat about making espresso, the blend, the age of the beans, whatever. If he knows these these things, and I like the answers, and speaks with authority tries to impress me. If he doesn't, he's usually willing to get as much new input as he can.
In the case where there is no clear 'expert' in the shop, it's usually better to walk away.
I've occasionally been invited to 'demonstrate', and humbly acquiesce. It's turned into a bit of a jam occasionally, and the drinks are usually comped.

By which time the people in line behind you are ready to kill . . .

[Chert]

Just when I thought it couldn't get worse, she looked into the cup, perhaps thinking it should be 4 ounces for a double, and pressed the button again!

I wonder if she thought you had ordered an americano!

A few years ago, I gave ceramic espresso cups to a restaurant/cafe/catering business that some acquaintances opened. I subsequently had a good espresso there once, but I don't frequent the place. They once employed a barista who could define ristretto and could make latte art, both skills that I almost never see around here. She said, "I should have the owners reprogram their machine for ristretto shots." I made sure to tell the proprietor to value that barista.

When the coffee spot only offers throw away cups, it is usually a sign that they really intend to sell sweetly flavored milk. (There is an idea for a thread/poll: Are you an espresso purist or Do you love espresso/ lattes with flavors added? And if so which ones do a good espresso shot justice.)

After reading Psyd's story, I may try again sometime to engage a barista or owner in conversation about their coffee. I felt pretty abashed the day I was "dismissed" from behind the counter....

[cannonfodder]

I simply don't go back. They will either get better, or go out of business.

I may ask a question or two but nothing very intrusive. If the person behind the counter inquires more and starts the discussion, I am always happy to talk coffee, but I never force myself upon them. To do so would be arrogant and rude. I never go behind a counter, I am not employed there and having me behind the counter would be too large a liability for not only them, but me. I only know a couple people that have a commercial café, if I come in and they are not busy and they invite me back, I will go but that is only because we are friends.

You have to face the fact that many café owners don't give a hoot about the coffee, they are in it for the profit. After all, the point of a business it make money, to make money you need throughput. If some guy holds up the line and badgers the employees, I would simply toss him out the door.

[Psyd]

I'm sure you often get this sort of response.
"ALL of our barista have had at least a week of training. Now would you like some expresso?"

"Oh, no, just the bearclaw, thank you!"

By which time the people in line behind you are ready to kill . . .

I'm always willing to let the line die down. If it doesn't, my other two options are to take the chance, or just tell myself a place that has a never-ending line prolly won't take any technique that anyone suggests, as the first law of commerce is don't screw with what ain't broken. Ya can't argue with success. ; >

[mhoy]

Some restaurants do well, others don't. My Elektra came from a place that got sold (or folded). The outside of the machine was cleaned frequently (lots of light scratches), but the group head. Here is an over exposed picture of the group head (ever try to take a picture of black on black).



I am so glad I didn't have espresso from this machine before I cleaned it up! I'm actually amazed they got water to even come out the group head.
=-=-
Mark

[Psyd]

True 'dat, me brudda!
The La Pav Pub that I rescued from a defunct bistro would not longer allow water through the group. Other than that, it looked remarkably similar to the pics you posted!