Techniques for raising the bar on local espresso bar quality? - Page 2

[espressme]

Well, if you want to raise the bar, assure that it is heavy, and prepare to lower it with sufficient force to get the point across. Or give up. One person cannot start a trend.
ymmv

[alsterlingcafe]

By which time the people in line behind you are ready to kill . . .

Speaking of lines Jason.......what's your opinion of Cafe Trieste on San Pablo Blvd.? I have a client two doors down, and we went over there for "drinks." I specifically asked for a "traditional cap"; 1/3 x 3, and the barista actually got the "happy face", and eagerly made two of them. They were good, and that's without sugar; no burnt after-taste issues.

While I also prefer waiting to get home for my coffee, very, very occasionally, I'll find a Third-Wave shop. Thank God I don't have the same problem with BBQ in your area. I generally stay at the Oakland Marina and order out dinner at Everett & Jones! While everyone thinks they have "really good BBQ".........the number of decent BBQ restaurants, per capita, is certainly higher than competent specialty coffee shops.

What's your opinion.......of Trieste, not Everett & Jones....although if I had to choose BBQ or Espresso.......I'm thinkin' BBQ! (don't hate me for havin' an appetite!)

Al in SoCal

[zin1953]

Everett & Jones has several locations. The Berkeley place is only 1.2 miles from my house; the Hayward place is only 0.9 miles away . . .

As for Caffe Trieste, I think a lot depends upon how busy they are. I don't go often enough to have a "preferred" barista, but I do know I've had some excellent capps as well as some disappointing ones, the latter generally occurring when they are really slammed. I have had straight espresso there, I think, twice -- and I won't be ordering them again. Both times burnt and bitter.

Cheers,
Jason

[alsterlingcafe]

My first few months into specialty coffee, I went to the Caffe Trieste in "The City" (SF), and was appalled at the straight espresso. It was my first huge disappointment with espresso cafes that enjoyed publicity no where near their notoriety. That same trip I went to Alvin's Espresso, where the same, if not worse, happened. It was a time when I went into the web and Goggled "Best Espresso" for the Bay Area. Since then I've formed the opinion that while espresso has become a world-wide phenom, it's also one of the most misunderstood and most improperly prepared of all beverages.

As for Everett & Jones, I wasn't aware that they had other locations. The only one I've "done" is right there in Jack London Square.

Best, Al

[cafeIKE]

A 2nd great bar in as many years descends into mediocrity.

When 1, yhs, of 40+ customers orders espresso and the great unwashed Americano [12oz] with cream and sugar, Africano [ cappuccino with water or short Americano with steamed milk ] and latte grandes, there is little incentive to pull great espresso.

The baristas apologized for the 11 day old roast and tried, pulling several sinkers, but when the first M is a big C [crap], there is little hope.

Nothing, other than the owner's desire to achieve and maintain top flight standards.

[alsterlingcafe]

Ian........your lament is my lament......

My wife and I went to get some Brasilian imported foods at Gaucho Market in Anaheim. It's a well known, at least to the Argentinian community, specialty market with a pretty good meat market at one end and a sandwich cafe at the other. You'll find the Argentinian community there for lunch every day. The sandwiches are very good, and only at Gaucho can you buy the Argentinian version of flank steak; "entrana." (tilda over the "n").

Anyway, they must have been talked into adding espresso, because I saw a Nuvo Simonelli 2 group and NS grinder at the register area. But true to form, the steam wand honestly looked like it hadn't been wiped down in weeks. I'm not exaggerating, as it had white build up to beat the band; baked in, running the length of the wand! The machine looked beat up, and the grinder hopper had oil-laden stains from lack of cleaning.....and probably over roasted beans. The frustrating thing for me, is to see these setups, not maintained, and know that some coffee company probably offered them a "deal" on the gear, as long as they bought their coffee. Bottom line, they get technical beverage equipment with no training at all. The industry is driven to sell the beans. It would be one thing if the machine were a super-auto that actually could make decent espresso shots with minimal maintenance, but we all know that story.

I believe that the proliferation of low quality espresso is borne of the fact that every "Tom-Dick & Harry" restaurant-cafe owner wants to add espresso, like a novelty thing........but doesn't have time to learn coffee. Yet everyone thinks they're making "good stuff." Reminds me of the line we used in commercial photography......"Anyone who owns a camera thinks they're a photographer!"

Al

[Psyd]

The frustrating thing for me, is to see these setups, not maintained, and know that some coffee company probably offered them a "deal" on the gear, as long as they bought their coffee.

The odd thing is that the coffee distributor gets a bad reputation, as a talentless PBTC isn't doing his roasts any great PR. If I were to give a shop a great deal on kit as long as they used my roasted beans, I'd make danged sure that they were presenting those beans in their best light. I'd give a discount that was contingent on a minimal standard of quality, and either take the machinery back or take away the discount.
There is an historic (which is probably the finest part of the operation) roaster here in Tucson that does this, and I'm constantly calling him and 'discovering' a new site that is giving his beans a bad name. One of these days I'll start suggesting new roasters to his clients, telling them that it's his fault that the coffee is selling so poorly.

[alsterlingcafe]

Chris......every time I see you post, I get "the guilties" for not visiting my Tucson clients. Last time I was in town, I decided to have a good kosher deli sandwich, and ended up at a "real kosher deli!" Unfortunately, "real kosher" also means they won't melt Swiss cheese over my pastrami and corned beef! The sandwich was meagerly weighted with meat, and looked more flat than bulging in the cut middle, where any great deli sandwich should swell up. I'll never eat there again!!!

Anyway, the proliferation of food and beverage shops offering espresso is growing, no doubt. The old adage, "Follow the money....." applies here. The major institutional food distributors and coffee merchants just want to move beans. Although I've not tried the espresso at Gaucho, I'll bet that a number of their clients, out of not trying anything better, think it's really good. (and for them, it may be?) One of my close Argentinian friends gave a BBQ this past weekend, and he actually asked me if I'd tried the espresso there. I smiled and said, "Leo, you know me and coffee. I'd be too critical and wouldn't want to upset anyone." He said, "Well, they have a really great espresso." Leo is one of the best Argentinian BBQ chefs I know, but he's also my only friend that likes my straight shots run very, very long.....until I've turned a 28 second extraction into 50 seconds. He likes about 5-6 ounces finished from what I normally make into a 1.25 oz. double. But for him, that's what he likes! I know.......don't ask! Taste certainly is everything......and who am I to point and critique.......I am here only to collect my money.

I keep threatening to visit Tucson, the "birthplace of my first marriage", (in the old Redwood Inn on Speedway...which is now a Japanese restaurant, right?) I wonder if they too have an espresso machine and a grinder with a really oily hopper!?

Best, Al

[malachi]

My first few months into specialty coffee, I went to the Caffe Trieste in "The City" (SF), and was appalled at the straight espresso. It was my first huge disappointment with espresso cafes that enjoyed publicity no where near their notoriety. That same trip I went to Alvin's Espresso, where the same, if not worse, happened. It was a time when I went into the web and Goggled "Best Espresso" for the Bay Area. Since then I've formed the opinion that while espresso has become a world-wide phenom, it's also one of the most misunderstood and most improperly prepared of all beverages.

As for Everett & Jones, I wasn't aware that they had other locations. The only one I've "done" is right there in Jack London Square.

Best, Al

Trieste is a cultural icon - but has never served good coffee (or been known for good coffee).
And "Alvin's Espresso"? Never even heard of it.
This sounds more like an issue with Google/the Web/"wisdom of the masses" than anything inherent in coffee.

[Psyd]

Unfortunately, "real kosher" also means they won't melt Swiss cheese over my pastrami and corned beef! The sandwich was meagerly weighted with meat, and looked more flat than bulging in the cut middle, where any great deli sandwich should swell up. I'll never eat there again!!!
I keep threatening to visit Tucson, the "birthplace of my first marriage", (in the old Redwood Inn on Speedway...which is now a Japanese restaurant, right?) I wonder if they too have an espresso machine and a grinder with a really oily hopper!?

What was the Deli? Not Jason's... Anyhoo, if you like, I'll research a decent deli for you. I'll bill you only for expenses! ; > Pastrami with swiss melted over it, yeah? I'm on it. Or, are you wanting a decent Rueben sammich?
I remember working at the Jewish Community Center and getting the hairy eyeball for, when my bud called across their performance space to ask what I wanted him to fetch me up for lunch, I responded, "Ham & Swiss! Realizing m,y gaff, I blushed and said, "Oh, just get me a cheeseburger..." Fortunately, they all (mostly) had a great sense of humour.

If the Japanese restaurant is the one that I'm thinking of, it has changed hands a coupla times since, and at one point served espresso and sushi. Neither with a lot of success, because neither were that great.
Cafe Luce is the place to get a decent espresso here now. Just N of Old Main at the UofA, on the W side of Park Ave.

[alsterlingcafe]

Trieste is a cultural icon - but has never served good coffee (or been known for good coffee).

Great......now you tell me!

And "Alvin's Espresso"? Never even heard of it. This sounds more like an issue with Google/the Web/"wisdom of the masses" than anything inherent in coffee.

Well Chris, as for the source of my list back then, the "/wisdom of the masses" was, and is, actually more like "/the wisdom of the one." In any case, it was just a neat little list of destinations. Well, actually not that little, as, per the author's intent, includes nearly every nook and cranny in The City that serves up anything under the banner of espresso. The website, by the way, still belongs to Greg Sherwin; http://www.coffeeratings.com. I luckily, soon after, burned out on following anyone's "list of recommendations."

So now, I don't chase after great coffee, as much as keep my eyes open for great retailing. My disappointments in specialty coffee have not always been borne of just poor espresso based drinks, but of poor retail marketing and just plain bad business practices. As I've said before, specialty coffee is, relatively, a young industry. And I'm observing the two traditional paths with interest; the passionate purist and the driven, market saavy, entrepenuer. I think once or twice so far, I've seen a blending of both.

Al

[alsterlingcafe]

What was the Deli? Not Jason's... Anyhoo, if you like, I'll research a decent deli for you. I'll bill you only for expenses! ; > Pastrami with swiss melted over it, yeah? I'm on it. Or, are you wanting a decent Rueben sammich?.

It wasn't Jason's, especially if you're talking about the chain of deli's under that name. It was just a small kosher deli, without much personality. I'd know it if I saw it again. And I'm more for corned beef than pastrami, although if they're both high quality, I do love the combo.

My absolute fav "sammich" at a good deli would be corned beef, pastrami and tongue on rye, melted Swiss on top, Russian dressing on the "slaw side", and mustard on the "meat side." (see photo below for what to look for in my sandwich...taken at Sherm's Deli, Palm Desert, CA, on Taquitz Rd.)

If the Japanese restaurant is the one that I'm thinking of, it has changed hands a coupla times since, and at one point served espresso and sushi. Neither with a lot of success, because neither were that great. Cafe Luce is the place to get a decent espresso here now. Just N of Old Main at the UofA, on the W side of Park Ave.

Well, in 1970, it was painted fire engine red, with white trim, and was the location of our reception. Maybe eight years ago, on that infamous deli trip I just mentioned, I remember driving past and seeing it had gone Asian. Which is just fine by me, as I do love Sushi and Sashimi. But if it ain't fresh, I'm not going.

I can see that I'll have to alert you to my next trip into Tux-son. Chris, please update my address book with your current contact info if you would?

Al

[Psyd]

The sammich you describe is possible (maybe) in this desert oasis, but the one pictured doesn't exist outside LA (and it's subdivided suburbs, like PD and LB) and NYC. Maybe some places across the bridges, in 'Jersey. Maybe...

But, I'll go on a quest and see if I can find something.

[Psyd]

Al, check yer PM's.