Synesso Cyncra Single Group - A Home Barista's Perspective - Page 3

[barry]

3) The WBC protocol is not the best way to test a machine's performance for home usage.

i'll just comment that that was never the intended purpose of the protocol.

[Abe Carmeli]

DAY 5

Today we will take a look at the Cyncra under the hood. Let's move straight to some pictures.

Diffuser

a. Looking up at the diffuser you can see that it is made from stainless steel, the coffee oils wipe clean easily, reducing the effort required to clean the oil build up,

b. The bayonet ring is stainless steel not brass so it is not a wearing part, the ears of the portafilter will wear but not the bayonet ring

c. There is no plating in this picture that will wear off over time or flake away

Front view

a. The brew valve is the industry standard flange mount parker/Lucifer valve

b. The drain for the brew group is incorporated into the discharge manifold for easy draining

c. The wire used is 200 degree C rated

d. The readout for the BREW tank has an offset that allows it to be tuned to show the temperature at the contact point on top of the coffee

e. There is a 10 amp pump reset

f. The SS tube seen on the left carries water from the heat exchanger in the steam boiler to the brew boiler

g. There is no external tubing to cool the water on its path to the coffee, the tube system is also able to constantly bleed air from the groups, to ensure full saturation at all times.

Side view

a. The expansion valve, steam tank drain and sight glass are located over the drain box for easy draining and drip catching

b. The heating elements are all stainless steel

c. Inlet water travels in a heat exchanger through the steam tank to be preheated to a temperature slightly hotter that the brew temperature. The heat exchanger is sized so that it is not able to increase the temperature in the brew group but is able to hold it steady if you are brewing at a quick pace the heating element will run in conjunction with the heat exchanger to hold the group at the set point.

Back

a. The steam tank is foot mounted to the stainless steel frame

b. The shell of the steam tank is 12 gauge

Top view

a. The date and pressure test is noted at the end of each tank (11/05 100psi)

b. The vacuum breaker is a design that is rebuildable, it fits into most machines

c. The copper tube that is used is for gauges and steam, there is no copper or brass in the heated brew water path

top view

a. The probe connection is 1/4" NPT it is an RTD type probe

b. The date and pressure test is noted at the end of each tank (11/05 375psi)

c. All fasteners are stainless steel as well

[barry]

i was fortunate to visit the synesso works last spring, and got to see several machines in various stages of assembly, plus racks of "raw" parts. i was very impressed by the more-or-less modular design, and apparent ease of assembly.


--barry "and mark is a nice guy"

[Nick]

i was fortunate to visit the synesso works last spring

Too bad I lost/had stolen the camera that I took pictures with. It was really cool, getting photos of Barry, Cindy Chang (Counter Culture), Bronwen Serna, and Jay Caragay all in-frame together with Mark Barnett... peering into Cyncra innards and stuff.

Good times... good times...

[Ozark_61]

Great article guys. Are there any comparisons to other commercial machines (LM?) for the temp profile?

[cinergi]

Great article guys. Are there any comparisons to other commercial machines (LM?) for the temp profile?

I have run extensive WBC temperature testing on my Synesso 1 group and picking one series at random out of the 25 I have run shows a reproducibility score of + - .36F and a stability score of +- .93F. This compares favorably with the testing Greg Scace did on the prototype LM GS3 which according to Greg scored +- .48F for reproducibility and +- .87F for stability. Now, which machine makes better espresso I have no idea. I think at this level you are probably just splitting hairs in the repeatability/stability dept. The goal of course would be to get both scores below .5F for any type of duty cycle especially an intermittent duty cycle (typical home use). No machine can make that claim yet.

[HB]

I have run extensive WBC temperature testing on my Synesso 1 group and picking one series at random out of the 25 I have run shows a reproducibility score of + - .36F and a stability score of +- .93F.

Is this before or after the flow restrictor modification Abe mentioned? I ask because your reported results are better than Sean's results, excerpted below:

Series 0
Brew Temperature Reproducibility ˚F (6.3) .65
Espresso Machine Temperature Stability ˚F (6.4) 1.36

Series 1
Brew Temperature Reproducibility ˚F (6.3) 1.28
Espresso Machine Temperature Stability ˚F (6.4) 1.80

Series 2
Brew Temperature Reproducibility ˚F (6.3) .51
Espresso Machine Temperature Stability ˚F (6.4) 1.41

[cinergi]

These results are on a stock cyncra 1 group 220v machine. Perhaps the 220v performs a little better than the 110v. I haven't finished testing the larger restrictor sizes yet.

[Ozark_61]

Stability looks quite great. I was wondering if anyone knew how the actual profile compares to the other machines, ie, comparing the report Sean posted earlier (attached) on the cyncra to something like an LM. It will be interesting to see how the 'hump' that Dan has reported in his e61 articles may come into play.

[Abe Carmeli]

I will be on a short hiatus and will resume the bench review on January 7th. I'm waiting for a check valve replacement from Synesso, as the current one is malfunctioning. My next installment will be a shot to shot comparison between the Cyncra and a PID'd prosumer home machine.

[malachi]

FYI...

[wogaut]

I used the same scaling for temperature 185 - 203 for easy comparison to Cinergi's graph.

That measurement is the second shot after these machines have been sitting idly for over 30 minutes, so I think it's quite representative.

I used a coffee-loaded filter basket with a K thermocouple and my Fluke-54II, since I don't have the Scace device.

The FB70 has been PIDed and has 2 hybrid groups.

The GB5 is a stock 2 group.

I LOVE the LM Hybrid group! Unfortunately the GB5 doesn't sport the hybrid group.

BTW: This modded FB70 has a shot stability of 0.35F.

Wolfgang

[malachi]

Get a Scace, otherwise this isn't apples to apples...
In general, folks should always define the equipment and protocol when posting these results

[cinergi]

Get a Scace, otherwise this isn't apples to apples...
In general, folks should always define the equipment and protocol when posting these results

My results were based on the WBC protocol using a calibrated Scace device. The results along with the raw data were sent to Greg.

[wogaut]

Get a Scace, otherwise this isn't apples to apples...
In general, folks should always define the equipment and protocol when posting these results

Defined my equipment and procedure.

IMO, even if not exactly the same, the results are still representative (there has been a discussion about that here on HB).
And, I'd expect rather more variability with coffee than with the GC device.

Wolfgang

[lennoncs]

Defined my equipment and procedure.

IMO, even if not exactly the same, the results are still representative (there has been a discussion about that here on HB).
And, I'd expect rather more variability with coffee than with the GC device.

Wolfgang

I don't have any experience on a GB5 but your graph shows it hitting temp in a second.... Am I reading this correct?
The response time seems too fast for some reason.


Sean

[wogaut]

...after 2 seconds. I started that graph picture at second "1", sorry, if this was misleading. Clock started ticking at zero, so after 2 seconds (and the fraction of the second that it took to start logging) it was at temp. I have another shot where it's closer to 3. So somewhere between 2 or 3 seconds. And I flushed for 2 seconds immediately before locking in the PF and hitting the button.

Wolfgang

[malachi]

And I flushed for 2 seconds immediately before locking in the PF and hitting the button.

ahhhhhh

[HB]

Follow-on discussion of differences between thermofilter and over-the-lip / Schomer-type in-basket measurements moved to Scace Thermofilter Temperature Device.

[Abe Carmeli]

I promised a shot comparison today between the Cyncra & my home machine, but this will have to wait. Mark Barnett of Synesso is looking into a new type of valve to replace the faulty one I have in my Cyncra. This will take a little longer. But perhaps delaying the head to head test is not a bad idea. I am going to be in Denver on Friday to work with the Versalab M3 espresso machine. It has been said that it produces high definition shots when it comes to clarity. It is my feeling that the comparison between the Cyncra and my home machine will boil down to clarity. I will use my experience with the Versalab to establish the high mark for clarity to which I will compare the other two machines