Synesso Cyncra ideal extraction procedure

[Mike H]

Hello all.
I finally did it. Bought a Synesso Cyncra.
Wow, what a nice piece of engineering. And so much of it. I'm almost new to the world of espresso, have been drinking moka's for years but want the real thing.
I've had the machine for 2 days now and made a bunch of espressos and cappuccinos, but one thing is missing:
the nice thick crema that I see when it's made on Utube and everywhere else.

I suspect my barista techniques are not up to standard, but I dont want to miss the goal if I accidentally should get my distribution and tamping technique right: Is there a secret formula upon which the Cyncra was moulded?
Like, is the Ideal Barista one that will pull a double shot say, every 4 and a half minute after flushing exactly 60 ml of water from the brewgroup? And what about temperature settings and the offset in the Cyncra's Brainbox, how does that work? The supplied manual says surprisingly little about the technical design of the machine.

Any suggestions?

Cheers, Michael

[mgrayson]

Fresh beans? Sorry, but I had to ask....

Enjoy!

Matt

[pdx]

There really aren't any tricks. After tamping & pulse a little water (just one second) through the screen to heat everything up before locking the portafilter in. Everything else is just common good practice.

Don't worry about temperature offset- they set that at the factory. The temp you set on the pid is the temp you'll get out the screen.

[PhillySteve]

Hello all.
one thing is missing:
the nice thick crema that I see when it's made on Utube and everywhere else. Any suggestions?
Cheers, Michael

First, make sure your brew pressure is in the 8.5-9bar range during extraction. Now you can measure your timing and shot volume. With a double basket, shoot for 2oz over 30 seconds. An like Matt said, good fresh beans are a must. What blend are you using? Are you distributing your grinds evenly (doserless can clump)? Use a bottomless portafilter to assess your own technique.

[DavidMLewis]

First, make sure your brew pressure is in the 8.5-9bar range during extraction.

Let me expand on this a bit. Most rotary pumps set their output pressure with a bypass valve that starts bypassing output water back to the input of the pump at a fixed pressure offset relative to the inlet pressure. That means that if you're not feeding it with a constant pressure (from a bottle or a regulator) that's the same as the pressure with which it was set up at the factory, your brew pressure will need to be adjusted.

Best,
David

[HB]

I've had the machine for 2 days now and made a bunch of espressos and cappuccinos, but one thing is missing: the nice thick crema that I see when it's made on Utube and everywhere else.

Honestly, when it comes to making espresso, obtaining nice thick crema is not difficult. Given fresh coffee, a good grinder, and the espresso machine you have, it's nearly a no brainer. Diagnosing extraction flaws and optimizing the taste profile is much harder.

Verify the coffee freshness (ideally 4-7 days post-roast), the grinder is capable and has sharp burrs, and the brew pressure as others have suggested since very low pressure will reduce crema volume and viscosity. The site's How-Tos cover topics for the new to intermediate barista. Now that I think about it, I believe that you'll find there isn't a lot of discussion of crema production among the guides except as an indicator of gross extraction defects, underscoring my point that one of the basic elements noted above are missing.

[pdx]

Let me expand on this a bit. Most rotary pumps set their output pressure with a bypass valve that starts bypassing output water back to the input of the pump

The Synesso manual describes this in the setup procedure- this is a big deal. Did you install the machine yourself or have a tech do it?

The manual is pretty descriptive.

[Gregg K]

And I'm just posting here because I get all warm and excited when there is discussion about a Cyncra. So never mind me.

Although I can say that tonight I poured a very good dark Italian roast. No bitterness at all. This means I am ready to graduate to a CYNCRA now!

Carry on...

[Mike H]

The Synesso manual describes this in the setup procedure- this is a big deal. Did you install the machine yourself or have a tech do it?

It was never installed. There's no Synesso dealer here in Denmark so I bought it in Germany and had it sent. I use bottled water but i plan to install a filter and a pump with pressure regulator.

[popeye]

I just want to take the time to point out something i've seen in a couple of these "please help" threads. First, this site is all about help. The one thing i love about espresso is it's always a learning curve, therefore we can always use help. Just recently, i began culling bad beans pre-roast as a result of a thread here on HB, which has actually been a great help.

However, it's easy to be defensive about advice. Of course, my dosing and tamping techniques are perfect. I couldn't possibly use any suggestions there. And then there's also a narrowing of focus: I've posted here several times just wanting confirmation of what i thought was true. I didn't consider anything outside of what I didn't think possible.

I'm writing all this because I've offered suggestions in the past, only to have them glossed over. Michael, you've got a great machine, but how about answering Matt's question: do you have fresh beans? Or letting us know you've seen Dan's suggestions, including what shape your grinder is in and whether you've read the faqs. It seems you think that the questions about pump pressure are relevant, and that's good. But i'm greatly dissuaded from trying to help if it looks like others who have done the same have done so in vain.

I'm guilty of exactly the same thing i've just got done complaining about, BTW. And it's really my selfishness that makes me complain anyway. You've raised this question about lack of crema, and i want to find out the answer too!

[Jacob]

Hej Michael


Call me on the number that I sent in a 'Private Message'!


/Jacob

[Mike H]

Fresh beans? Sorry, but I had to ask....

Yes, good question. What is fresh beans?
The beans I have used so far are over 10 days old and sold in an airtight bag of 250 grams, from my local supermarket.
They are cheap too.
But all of them tastes better on my moka, tasting bitter, but not as bitter and/or sour as when coming from the cyncra.
Something is wrong here.

Michael

[HB]

The beans I have used so far are over 10 days old and sold in an airtight bag of 250 grams, from my local supermarket.

There's the problem. Espresso demands fresh coffee. An airtight bag only slows the staling process a little. If your supermarket is anything like those here, coffee sold off the shelf can be anywhere from weeks to months old. Find a local coffee roaster or buy from your favorite local cafe. Owning a Cyncra and using supermarket coffee is like owning a Ferrari and using wooden wagon wheels: You may get where you need to go, but you won't enjoy the ride.

[erics]

Mike H -

There's no Synesso dealer here in Denmark so I bought it in Germany and had it sent. I use bottled water but i plan to install a filter and a pump with pressure regulator.

I would make a phone call to Synesso real soon and find out from them EXACTLY what literature one gets when they purchase one of their fine machines, item by item. Whatever you don't have, ask them to send post haste.

As far as installing a filter and a pump, you might very well want to consider adding an accumulator in there and be sure to get Synesso's recommendations on a pressure regulator. Installing the RIGHT SIZE pressure regulator is as important as installing one in the first place.

[Jacob]

Does anyone knows what it takes to put a Cyncra into service (besides providing power and water):
- Where do one bleed the brew-system (and what's the procedure)?
- Is the 'technician' supposed to close and adjust the OPV (as I had to on my GS/3) or anything else of that kind?

[pdx]

- Where do one bleed the brew-system (and what's the procedure)??

The design of the Synesso group bleeds itself. Brew water is drawn from the top of the saturated group, so all the air in the boiler bleeds before any water comes out. Just power the machine up (with the breakers turned off so the elements don't heat) & push the paddle lever open. The boiler will feed & bleed itself.

- Is the 'technician' supposed to close and adjust the OPV (as I had to on my GS/3) or anything else of that kind

You just adjust the screw on the pump- just like every other rotary pump.

If you don't have the owners manual email me- I have a pdf copy.

[AndyS]

Owning a Cyncra and using supermarket coffee is like owning a Ferrari and using wooden wagon wheels

I was about to post something like, "With all due respect, Dan, how would you know?"

But then, deep within the HB archives, I came upon this photo:

[Jacob]

Thanks Ben

The design of the Synesso group bleeds itself. Brew water is drawn from the top of the saturated group, so all the air in the boiler bleeds before any water comes out. Just power the machine up (with the breakers turned off so the elements don't heat) & push the paddle lever open. The boiler will feed & bleed itself.

Nice piece of engineering

I use bottled water but i plan to install a filter and a pump with pressure regulator.

Here is what I plan to do with my GS/3:
In Danish:
http://www.espressobar.dk/index.php?option=com_fireboard&func=view&Itemid=48&catid=2&id=8348#8348
In English (nice blog BTW):
http://coffeecollective.blogspot.com/2007/11/water-testing.html
http://coffeecollective.blogspot.com/2007/12/bestmax-water-filter.html