Starbucks to retrain employees how to press button - Page 2

[Beezer]

There was a pretty good story about this on ABC World News last night. They nailed the fact that this was basically a PR stunt by Starbuck's, and that it was unlikely to actually result in better coffee. They also gave some coverage to an independent shop (I forget which one), and showed the owner pulling a nice looking shot and pouring some latte art. Glad to see the independents are getting some positive press out of this.

[Randy G.]

This mornings news release through AP had some interesting quotes. (full article HERE):

[comments in italics are mine, added for comic relief...]

Starbucks baristas are getting back to pouring espresso into shot glasses first. "You get to see if it's a quality shot of espresso..."
...and if you see a quality shot, a phone number to the Vatican will be posted so you can report the miracle.

"It's not as simple as pushing a button," said Ann-Marie Kurtz, Starbucks' manager of global coffee and tea education.
Ya.. sometimes you need to remember to put a cup under the spigot...

Nearly 7,100 company-operated Starbucks stores across the U.S.... closed at 5:30 p.m. local time Tuesday for a teach-in that was part espresso tutorial, part pep rally.
"Rah rah resso! What the hell's espresso?"

...and the last two are funny on their own without my assistance:

Starbucks is welcoming customers back Wednesday with a new promise posted in stores: "Your drink should be perfect, every time. If not, let us know and we'll make it right."

Starbucks Chairman and Chief Executive Howard Schultz said the 135,000 baristas who got the refresher course pledged to uphold "the uncompromising standards and quality that have made Starbucks the world's coffee leader."

[aindfan]

I just went into the local Starbucks to ask a "barista" what their training was about. He told me that they worked on steaming milk and that things were totally different now. I asked "Is there going to be a heart on top of it?" (A rosetta might be asking too much) and the reply was "No, we're not that cool." I had no intention of walking out of there with a cup in my hand, but after asking me what I usually drink (my answer: a shot or cappuccino in the morning), he sent me on my way with a tall latte, asking me to say if it was any different. It seemed to taste the same as I remembered a Starbucks drink tasting (haven't had one since last summer), but when I removed the cap I saw the difference. The foam was MUCH smoother and didn't have any huge bubbles - you can even hear the difference when they're preparing it (quite ch-ch-ch, no loud whine). The foam was *actually* close to a good microfoam. It still isn't anywhere near the smooth texture of the best places downtown (9th Street, Gimme!, Joe, Grumpy, and others) but it is a noticeable improvement. He told me that they went through about 12 gallons of milk last night during the training.

On an unrelated note... when is the upper west side going to get a cafe that REALLY cares about its coffee? There seems to be some sort of barrier set up on 20th street that keeps the good stuff downtown.

[Beezer]

Well, if they are actually training their baristas not to resteam old milk and how to make microfoam, that could be a fairly big step in the right direction. Considering that most of their drinks are pretty heavy on the milk, having properly steamed milk would go a long way toward making their drinks palatable. Now if only they would switch to fresher, less charred beans, they might be onto something.

[Matthew Brinski]

There seems to be some sort of barrier set up on 20th street that keeps the good stuff downtown.

barrier = lease rates

.

[peacecup]

I've been on several trips to Seattle the past 5 years, and I have to say that at least on one trip BEST espresso I got was at Starbucks. And I almost always drank straight espresso, and tried a number of well-known cafes. And I only stopped at Starbucks out of convenience a few times, because I generally don't like their espresso. The fact remains, however, that just because someone starts a cafe/roastery, loads it with the latest LM espresso machines (in purple or whatever color), and sends baristas to competition, does not mean that they will provide the kind of training and quality control that is required to consistently serve great espresso. I was often served overextracted shots that I would consider undrinkable from my home machine.

I think that independent cafes also suffer from the fact that most people just want their caffeine fix, often with a lot of milk, so they do not have to focus on pulling great shots.

None of this, of course, excuses Starbucks from any bad business practices, but as far as their espresso goes, sometimes the espresso from their automatic machines can be as equally mediocre as is espresso from a untrained or unfocused barista.

PC

[ntwkgestapo]

Peacup, I've got to agree! Back when they had all the La Marzoccos getting a decent espresso was a crap shoot most of the time... SOMETIMES you'd get a pretty good one, but most of the time, what I got, was over extracted swill (a young lady barista @ one of the SBux's in Charlottesville, VA actually would jump up when she was getting ready to tamp. She said it was the only way she could tamp hard enough! She was kinda small, but sheesh!). When they first introduced the superautos, getting one that WASN'T sour was akin to winning the lottery. They FINALLY seem to have gotten the temp right, as it's been a while since I got a sour shot from an SBux (but then I don't buy one from SBux anymore unless I'm out of town). Every now and then, they're actually kinda decent, but that, while not as rare as the lottery winnings, still isn't all that common.

I'd actually LIKE for starbucks to be OK most all the time. At least then I could get a decent shot while traveling.

[zin1953]

I personally don't understand all the hatred for Starbucks. They don't even register on the "competition" radar of progressive coffee professionals, and they did teach most Americans to pay more for better quality coffee.

I'd say we wouldn't be where we are without their influence.

There are a couple of ways to look at this. I'll call them "Gallo" and "McDonald's."

Gallo is perhaps the most detested winery in the world, but also the most successful, with more than 75 MILLION cases of wine sold annually (just under 180 million gallons). Their politics suck, and it's true that they built the winery on the backs of cheap wines like Thunderbird and Night Train Express as well as jugs of Burgundy, Chablis and Vin Rosé. BUT they also produce Cabernet, Chardonnay, Zinfandel, and more -- and Gallo has done more to help make America a wine-drinking nation than practically all other California wineries combined! No one I know within the wine trade has anything but the highest regard/respect for the Gallos and their role in the California wine industry . . . yet most people outside the trade have a negative image/opinion of the Gallo "monolith."

That said, even "true" wine geeks -- when they actually taste the stuff -- that their Sonoma appellation wines are quite good.

McDonald's is a corporation that could be (along with Starbucks, I might add) the "poster child" for American cultural domination of the world. Again, it (and Starbucks) is extremely successful at the same time. That dichotomy leads to the "successful company everyone loves to hate." (If everyone hates them, how can they be so successful?)

The difference is that, while Gallo truly does make some superb wine, does anyone really think that the word "superb" or "excellent" belongs in the same sentence with "Big Mac" or "Quarter Pounder with cheese"?

Starbucks espresso is pretty horrid. I've long called them the "McDonald's of Espresso," meaning that a) they're everywhere; b) they're pretty mediocre; and c) they'll do in a pinch. But I personally find their brewed coffee far less objectionable than their espresso drinks.

Furthermore there is the attitude with Starbucks that boils (no pun intended) down to "we taught America about coffee espresso." This ignores everyone that came before them, including but not limited to Peet's (where the Starbucks founders got their ideas/training). Think "Henry Ford." He didn't invent the automobile, but he perfected the assembly line making automobiles affordable for everyone . . . Starbucks didn't "perfect" espresso, but they did make it available!

Just my 2¢ . . .

Cheers,
Jason

[quiltmaster]

The sad fact is that the masses don't really love the taste of coffee. They want a sweet milk-based drink from a place that makes them feel really cool. A finely drawn ristretto with a dollop of microfoam is wasted on the average person who orders a "venti decaf skinny caramel machiatto extra hot extra wet w/whipped cream." All they want is the liquid dessert and the experience. Starbucks sells the experience and the designer label. They are deemed cool simply by walking down the street or into a meeting carrying the familiar green mermaid cup. The cup says that "I have sufficient disposable income to pay $5 for a cup of coffee, take that!" It is the designer label that matters; the quality of the coffee inside is of little consequence. And their tastebuds will respond only to what they have been trained to like.

Good luck to Coffee Klatch, but Mike is unlikely to convert very many Starbuckaroos. We have a fairly good barista working from a cart in the park near my work (which is where I met my wife; good sign). Twice daily, the majority of my coworkers walk right past her alfresco cafe and it's brightly colored umbrellas to stand in line at SB for their daily fixes. I have coerced many of them into sitting at Janice's with me for a cuppa. But, to them, SB is "better." That's where they get the designer label and the "I'm cool" mark.

I remember making breakfast for my nephews at my home one summer. They wanted to know what was wrong with the butter. I soon realized that the butter was fine. It was just that they had never had real butter. What they wanted and expected on their toast was something that looked and spread like Country Crock. And they weren't going to enjoy anything different! The good stuff was totally wasted on them. Same with good coffee and your average Starbuckaroo.

[zin1953]

The sad fact is that the masses don't really love the taste of coffee.

I disagree. The sad fact is that the (American) masses believe that coffee is supposed to taste like what goes into the cups at Starbucks.

OK, if you want to be really accurate, the (American) masses have been TAUGHT is believe that "coffee" is supposed to taste like Folger's, and "espresso" is supposed to taste like Starbucks.

You cannot blame the proverbial masses when there's a Starbucks on every corner, and (e.g.) most people have never heard of a Coffee Klatch, a Blue Bottle Coffee, an Espresso Vivace, or any other "true" source for great espresso drinks and/or beans on a convenient corner/storefront.

If you've never experienced "great" (or even "good"), you believe that "mediocre" is "best."

Cheers,
Jason

[quiltmaster]

snip.... And their tastebuds will respond only to what they have been trained to like.

We agree....

[kahvedelisi]

Reading the whole thing is such fun, and Coffee Klatch's response too (btw I'll insert here; today I found a site selling equipments and coffee, under the domain kafeklatch.com ...for a while I thought I'm surfing on Coffee Klatch shopping site, though there's "contact" link, there's no info at all so that makes me believe there's some "brand name abusing" there/or maybe not, just FYI)

Anyways.. I seriously believe Starbucks employee need that "push button" training. Why? here's my starbucks story if you care to listen... Once upon a..ah ok..A month ago or so, me and my gf passing by a starbucks store on our way back to home. I'm having serious headaches due to no coffee consumption that day (not even a drop can you imagine) and she's not an addict so I know there's no coffee (not even a gram) at her house. Eh I did the only "reasonable" thing comes to my mind and dragged my feet to that starbucks store. Well you see? I'm not "trained" on starbucks coffee terms but I definetely drank espresso there before at their stores (yuck!) so I decided the best option is cappa. Kindly barista asked "fenti, henti or minti?" I said "mini", they got 4,5yt and gave me a pint! looking at the size of the cup I said "wow! I'm lucky, lots of coffee!" took my first sip, and there at that second commemorated the old lady who sued McDonald's for burning her..err..whatever.. I knew this was Turkiye Starbucks and my chances of making easy money with a stewed tongue could be suicidial.. so I decided to keep sipping.. sip.. sip.. sip more.. it's.. wow! it's milk!.. pure cow milk! There I lifted the cap, yeah.. definetely milk! Showing it to my gf to be sure, hey it's white too! Now that card before cash reg. saying "additional espresso shot into your cup only for 1,75yt" was making "super automatic" sense! but that didn't changed the fact headaches remained...

Fast forward to another day.. a week or so later, this time we are at another neighbourhood, another starbucks shop, me being the wise one decided to trick super auto! Ha ha! I knew from my prior experience it was all about that super auto thingie! I'm challenging you! Yeah you! You may have push buttons but I have the..umm yes.. again starbucks barista asked "denti, centi, conti?" this time I said "micro" and they pulled out a 7oz paper cup saying that's the smallest one. Okay so be it, I said "pull a shot of espresso, rest fill with milk".. (btw they got 4,5yt again) got my cup, took my first sip, struggled to remember the name of McLady for 10 seconds, and lifted the cap.. yeah same as before.. there with sagged shoulders I realized "no way to trick a super auto!", regardless of cup size it gives you the same shot (with an "i" ) over and over and over again and again and nightmare! Constant nightmare.. consistency nightmare..I'm sooo very sure I'll get the same shot (with an "u" this time) with denti or fenti and I don't think the contents of henti will be any different if I dare to order one. So yeah.. whatever we all say, starbucks "really" needed this push button training.. especially in Turkish starbucks shops I believe it's essential..well either that or...you don't wanna push a turk's button

[Psyd]

I personally don't understand all the hatred for Starbucks. They don't even register on the "competition" radar of progressive coffee professionals, and they did teach most Americans to pay more for better quality coffee.
I'd say we wouldn't be where we are without their influence.

You're only as good as your last show. The Monster elevated great coffee to an art-form, got a great customer base, and then decided that the no longer needed, deserved, or could tell the difference, or some combination of all of the above, and stated installing paper-hatted PBTC to replace the baristi. I've spoken to very few folk behind the counter of a *$, including their 'Black Aprons', who really know, or care, anything about the coffee that they sell and serve.
Speaking to Howard Schultze about their absorption of Terrafazzione, and then getting to Seattle only to discover that he lied right to my face (or he really sucks at his ob, because what he said was going to happen and what I saw for myself were worlds apart) and his subsequent decisions, memoes, and actions that have led the Siren down her own tempting path to destruction following the call of profit at the expense of all else (what corporate behemoth could resist?) their customers have been shortchanged so that he gets an even larger mansion in the Hampton's, drives yet another really outrageously expensive foreign sports car, and draws yet another giant bonus for littering in China.
Need more? This is starting to sound like a rant, just a bit, but if you need me to go into any more details, you know my personal e-mail addy. I'll be happy to provide you with greater detail.
It wasn't bad when dependable mediocrity couple with almost incredible ubiquity (we all know of a Starbucks that is right next, catty-corner, or just across the street from another Starbucks, and, I kid you not, there is actually talk of the Starbucks on Speedway and Country Club in Tucson opening, wait for it, in their 'lobby' or 'foyer', yep, a Starbucks. Seems that the line got deep and their going to put in another Starbucks counter with another Starbucks machine and another Starbusck Cash Register with another crew of paper-hatted PBTC run by yet another Black Apron Manager. It's in the 'what-if' phases right now, but the conversation is that the two will have nothing to do with one another, other than sharing a location! I can't wait to find out how long it takes before their customer base decides which is the best one, and the line forms in front of one counter and only tourists end up at the other...
It may finally happen, that they will open a Starbucks inside a Starbucks!
In short, the 'bait and switch' the corporate greed-head attitude, bad service of a bad product made badly, and the fact that coffee that falls about level with clown-quality coffee is preventing entrepreneurs that have great coffee at the center of their business model from opening independent shops and surviving, should be enough of a reason to dislike the Green Monster, even if the rumours of their predatory business practices are false.

[laservet]

[quote="McDonald's is a corporation that could be (along with Starbucks, I might add) the "poster child" for American cultural domination of the world. Again, it (and Starbucks) is extremely successful at the same time. That dichotomy leads to the "successful company everyone loves to hate." (If everyone hates them, how can they be so successful?)

The difference is that, while Gallo truly does make some superb wine, does anyone really think that the word "superb" or "excellent" belongs in the same sentence with "Big Mac" or "Quarter Pounder with cheese"?

One difference is that McDonald's doesn't strive for excellence, they strive for consistency and it has made them extremely successful. Nobody goes there for haute cuisine, they bring their family there because no matter where they are a Big Mac will taste exactly the same. They structure their training to ensure consistency; training covers absolutely everything, including how they wash their hands. That way, if a high school student employee quits they just plug another in, two weeks of training, and he/she is doing exactly the same thing exactly the same way.

The people I know who frequent Starbucks do so for social reasons. They meet friends before picking up the kids, and usually get the same drink every single time. With the LM machines one could get anywhere from a fair shot to a horrible shot. Now they are all mediocre but they are consistent. Probably a smart move for them.

[zin1953]

Hmmm, let's see . . . .

One difference is that McDonald's doesn't strive for excellence, they strive for consistency and it has made them extremely successful . . .

Now they [Starbucks] are all mediocre but they are consistent. Probably a smart move for them.

And the difference is . . . ???

Beats me! Gallo strived for consistency, too -- and it's only been in the last 10-15 years (out of the company's 75 year history) that they have been recognized for the ever-increasing quality of their varietal wines (wines, BTW, they didn't start making until the mid-1970s).

Cheers,
Jason

[networkcrasher]

Can one open a Starbucks and provision their own equipment for making espresso? Dare I even say procure their own beans?

At least you'd get the masses in the door that think they're going to a run-of-the-mill Starbucks.

[zin1953]

Since Starbucks doesn't franchise, I doubt it. Besides . . . you'd still be stuck with their coffee!