Spring lever video - Page 2

[Dogshot]

...an important factor is coffee:water ratio. My PV produces 0.5 oz. per pull. I get 15g or more into the basket, so at three pulls I have a 15g:1.5 oz. ratio, which is pretty high.

I am interested in a lever machine, and am considering the Elektra and the PV Export. Although I suspect that I will be very happy with .5oz singles, it would be nice to also be able to pull a 45-50ml double. A potentially interesting way to look at the viability of the 3 pull double would be to pull each of the three shots into separate cups, and then report the shot weight to volume ratio. I have no idea what would indicate a significant difference in ratios, but if you could also drink each of the 3 portions separately and report on taste differences, it might help to explain any difference that you might find in the ratios. Of course, if there is no change in ratio between the 3 and if they taste very similar, then the 3-pull double sounds like a great option.

I have really appreciated all your videos of Export pulls. Does the shot wieght to volume ratio experiment sound like something you might be interested in trying and reporting?

Thanks,
Mark

[peacecup]

Hello Dogshot,

I've been meaning to get to the three cup experiment, but have yet to do so. You can also ask grong or others to try it. Try posting it under a new topic, like 'Three pulls, three cups, Ponte Vecchio" or similar. I'd be glad to see others try it as well. There must be differences between three and one-pull, 1.5 oz. ristrettos, but I don't know how they taste in the cup yet. I can say that my three pull shots are mighty tasty, but I'm open to the idea that a one pull shot could be tastier (I'm not sure how, and I'm terrible at describing flavors in coffee lingo).

I've in Seattle right now, enjoying pump espresso from a variety of vendors, and skilled baristas. I've had a lot of good espresso on this trip, but I still maintain that my three-pull PV shots have the edge for my taste. I just got word of a lever espresso shop here that I'm planning to try tonight, so I'm hoping it will surpass my expectations!

I'll try the three-cup experiment when I get to Juneau, with photos.

PC

[zix]

I've been meaning to get to the three cup experiment, but have yet to do so.

FWIW, I do the two-cup experiment every day... I just put another cup under the spouts as the pour starts getting bad instead of letting it run down into the drip tray. This is just to avoid emptying out my little container underneath so much (my machine needs an outlet below the machine, but I haven't got room for that, only for another small tray), but as a result I also get to see those last centilitres. They don't look good - thin, blond crema - and they taste bad - bitter and watery. But this is a larger machine, and it is designed to give a full double espresso - and a bit more - in one pull only. The last part is not something we want to drink anyway. Perhaps this is what chopinhauer refers to? The smaller machines are obviously differently designed.
I would guess the coffee in those three cups would get progressively more bitter and less sweet. There must be other differences in taste too, but they may vary depending on what coffee you use. I would see that variation as a good thing, though - we want a full spectrum of tastes in that espresso cup, and it is the combination that we drink.

[bishopthirteen]

More spring lever porn

[peacecup]

Is that the Astoria? I've never seen one like that. Really beautiful, and great video. I can't pull 2-oz. doubles like that with the 45-mm group!

PC

[bishopthirteen]

look at the Idrocompresso

http://www.keesvanderwesten.com/index2.html

I'm not sure where he sourced the groups, I don't think they are Astoria (CMA). My lever group dispenses 1.5 oz. per pull. This one looks like at least 3 oz. I love it when they pull out the triple basket!

[mogogear]

I recognize that machine as line carried by Visions Espresso in Seattle( I am there right now- just had espresso with prof_ Stack and HPerry tonight) La Mirage------

What a beautiful machine!!! I was hypnotized watching those three streams finally come together!! Nice video grab there B13!!! not to mention a sweet Versalab grinder to stock the basket!! Very little fuss in a sure hand at the PF.

[markmosk]

I just got a sama export and I'm new to all of this. I'm trying to figure something out. It looks like your coffee comes out when your lever is going up. Mine seems to come out when I push down. It has a nice action but I was curious why it "seems" at least, to be the opposite. Does it have to do with the pre-infusion and how you held it down for a while. Does that slow fill the chamber so that it comes out on the way up? Any thoughts?

Thanks,

mark

[orphanespresso]

Hello Mark! You have a spring piston machine, the 'resting' position is with the lever up on a spring piston machine, on a manual piston machine (no spring), the 'resting' position is with the lever down. As you slowly pull the lever down, the seals on the piston cross the water port, allowing water to enter the cylinder, when you hold the lever all the way at the bottom, this is the preinfusion stage. If you have worked out your grind & tamp, you can hold the lever in the down position till a few drops appear, and then, gently release the lever and let the spring do the work.

It may be that your grind is not fine enough, or your tamp is not firm enough, and what you are seeing as the 'coffee comes out on the down stroke' is the preinfusion from the boiler pressure. With a finer grind/firmer tamp there is more resistance against the boiler pressure, and you won't see coffee coming out till you're at the bottom of the stroke.

The Sama Export expert, or at least one of them (Peacecup - who also has great videos on the use of hand grinders!) is on hiatus, as he relocates to Sweden - Peacecup - are you there yet?

Did you get the brown Sama that was recently sold on Ebay? It looked very nice!

[Dogshot]

I just got a sama export and I'm new to all of this. I'm trying to figure something out. It looks like your coffee comes out when your lever is going up. Mine seems to come out when I push down.

I think Doug has it exactly right. You need to grind much finer. What grinder and beans are you using?

I personally don't like the effect of boiler preinfusion on my Export shots. To me, the most balanced shots from the Export occur after easing the lever down gently, and waiting for 3-5 seconds from the point where I hear water entering the brew chamber. No coffee emerges from the pf until I slowly release the lever and it starts its return travel. In other words, no espresso comes out until the piston starts to exert force on the puck. At that point, the espresso emerges in an even flow, rather than as drips.

You have a great machine. I'm sure you will be puling wonderful shots in no time.

Mark

[markmosk]

I quickly realized that the problem as to why my action was different than the peacecup video was because I assessed it as such with no grinds in the PF. That's b/c I spent a lot of time flushing it before I ran my first shot b/c of the old metal smell inside....and then flushing the vinegar after that. So I asked this w/o having grinds in there. Of course, when I ran my first real shot (I did a few with old/crappy beans just to help sugar/season the group head after as a final flush after the vinegar), it operated as it should. And actually it was a great first shot. I made a cappa b/c I wanted to test it all and wasn't using the best beans so I needed to mask it a bit (and I wanted to check the foam). In other words, it was a lousy crema but i did sip it before adding the milk and it wasn't very bitter at least which was nice. There's about 5 reasons why I didn't get good results on the espresso itself:
1) Old beans
2) Bad tamp (my tamper is too small... What's the correct size tamper to get for this mini PF??? )
3) It channeled b/c of 2 above.
...and a few others I can't think of right now.

I was very impressed with the foaming ability. After 10 years of using a krups toy, I got pretty good with it so I think learning on that was a good way to jump the learning curve with this more serious one. But I do have a few questions for you seasoned pros (see below).

YES...It was the brown one on Ebay. It is beautiful. Better than the pics. This was clearly a wedding gift that never got used or very rarely a long time ago. The cord had some electrical tape right near the base (which was annoying b/c the seller didn't mention this which you'd think would have been something to obviously disclose) but I can cut and rewire and only lose a few non-vital inches. The release valve works great with spring and plunger mint. I thought at first maybe the tank leaked a bit from the bottom and I'm still not 100% sure but I think it's just that I over filled and didn't notice and it leaked out at the base from inside...from the overfill. I also bought a Cremina and I'm gonna do my own comparison and then resell the lesser machine of the two. I like figuring it out for myself. If I let myself be biased by what I read and sheer volume of mentions, I'd pick the Cremina but so far I'm impressed with the Sama. It's is very attractive to boot.

SO, questions: What size PF is it actually and is it possible to get these anywhere? Through Ponte Vecchio? I only have the double which is all I need but if i could get another I might drill it naked to learn better/faster.

2) again, similar and I asked above, what size tamper therefore. Might be the same answer I realize but might be slightly different.

3) I assume the tank is brass, but I just want confirmation it's not aluminum. Can't totally tell just by observing b/c it's not "brass" colored, it's more typical silver color.

4) any good recs for cleaning the inside. Just want to try a little more to get rid of that musty/metal smell from the inside. I bet it sat on a shelf for years with a little moisture on the inside. No rust or scale comes out when I flush it or turn it upside down but the smell could be better. I think I improved it but was debating trying alka seltzer or denture stuff as they'd be "food safe". I wouldn't run them through the PF, i'd just soak and dump out the top. Also thinking about trying this with baking soda. (I dont' like using nasty chemicals).

Thanks for the tips. Having a ball with this here in Cleveland where it's really tough to find it good w/o making it yourself.

M.

[GB]

Welcome markmosk.
For the last couple of months I have been enjoying my Ponte Vecchio Export which is a remanufactured SAMA. I am not an expert but like you am enjoying experimenting.

You need a 45 mm tamper and most people seem to agree that a flat bottom one is best at least to start with.

Thor Tampers crafts some loverly wooden ones Thor Tampers
Les Albjerg
541-679-4672
http://www.thortamper.com/45mm.html
He also sells them with an external ridge to help with correct tamping.

Vaneli's sells one with a rosewood handle and stainless steel base
866-482-6354
http://www.vanelis.com/

Reg Barber in Canada
250-544-1778
http://www.coffeetamper.com/

I would suggest that you work with the double filter basket during your grinding and tamping experiments because it seems to be very forgiving with these variables. The single basket in my experience is not. Others may be able to help here?

You may be able to purchase a porta filter from:
The Good Coffee Company in Seattle
206-622-5602
They do not have website and only take phone orders paid by check. But do not let that bother you for doing business with them is a coffee experience in itself and they are extremely honest and trustworthy.

The boiler on my PVE is brass and I think nickel plated which makes it look like steel or aluminum. Yours is most likely the same. Check for a scratched area that shows the brass below the plating.

Sorry I cannot advise on boiler cleaning.

Your first post concerned me because it was not impossible that you machine had a coincidently malfunctioning pressure - stat and safety valve creating a boiler over pressure that was forcing water thru the grounds and a potentially dangerous situation. From your most previous post is seems that this is not the case. But just to make sure, have you checked both?

Good luck and enjoy.
Geoffrey

[peacecup]

Sounds like you're getting all the info you need. I've without the PV for more than a month, and I've got to say its more than a little irksome. You never miss your water till the well runs dry. Actually I love the Export when I do have it and never miss a day when I can help it.

PC

[GB]

Peacecup. Good to hear from you.

Sorry that you still do not have the PVE but hope that you have found some enjoyable local alternatives.

Geoffrey

[markmosk]

thanks GB and all for your help.

-mark