Should I bother with an espresso machine?

[JoesCup]

After my foray with a Gaggia espresso, my question is if I should even both with an espresso machine? How different will americanos and cappuccinos taste if made with an aeropress? I found the gaggia to be temperamental to a host of variables, if any were off the results were less than satisfactory. It seems the only way to make an espresso more forgiving is to go with an E61 based design. Whereas a $25 aeropress is smaller and seems to be fairly easy to make consistent (no tamping, not as susceptible to grind variations/dosing). I haven't tried aeropress yet, so those are just based on the observations I have had. I have heard very clover-like coffee is possible from it, which would be entirely palatable for me. The only thing I would need is some way to steam milk for a cappuccino/latte/mocha type beverage and some way to heat water. The only time straight espresso would be feasible is the evenings, since I need something that I can take with me on the go...which means making a lot of it so that it can retain some heat.

[Kristi]

LOL! What do your tastebuds say?

[JoesCup]

LOL! What do your tastebuds say?

I haven't really tried aeropress... and I'd probably end up getting something like the solis for my hot water and steaming needs

[Matthew Brinski]

Despite what some claim, espresso cannot be made from an Aeropress. Espresso is a brew method, and the Aeropress represents a different method. Having said that, if you find your tastes to be satisfied with an Aeropress, then go for it. Some may shun the idea of using an Aeropress, but as you stated, it's been said that Aeropress brews can be somewhat representative to the Clover brew tasting profiles (although the Clover people would probably strongly disagree). Just know that you would be making brewed coffee rather than espresso (espresso is the process of pressure infusion of around 9 bar), and you would be preparing something closer to a cafe au lait rather than a cappuccino. But seriously, enjoy it if it works for your desires. I've gathered that a metal filter for the Aeropress makes all the difference. I've only had coffee from it with the stock filter screen.

[HB]

Preparing espresso demands more skill and is more manually intensive than say French press. For the last few months I've been alternating days of espresso and French press. Both are great ways to enjoy coffee. I tried the Aeropress and it was an enjoyable clean cup. However, nobody would mistake it for an espresso prepared from a good setup. If you wish more information, Coffeegeek hosts pages and pages and pages of Aeropress commentary, much of it from the inventor himself.

[TimEggers]

A most interesting discussion, I agree that the comparison is like apples and oranges. I'm sorry to hear that your espresso is less than fantastic. Perhaps an Aeropress will be better suited to what you are looking for (I've never used one). I do know that my espresso (from a Gaggia) can be truly remarkable (even better once my Mazzer Super Jolly arrives)! Perhaps you could analyze your espresso and improve that. Perhaps a better technique or different equipment can offer better results. For nearly a year I made horrible espresso and was close to selling my machine out of frustration then I made my break through and since then I have made nothing but espresso.

Or maybe espresso just isn't for you and that's just fine too!

[JoesCup]

I'm not expecting espresso from an aeropress. The thought is that if my average experience might be better with an aeropress than with an espresso machine. Slight difference will be muted by dilution with milk or water. I guess my question is: how often are you able to make "really good" espresso? I'm not talking about "god shots" but something savory and enjoyable.

[HB]

I guess my question is: how often are you able to make "really good" espresso? I'm not talking about "god shots" but something savory and enjoyable.

According to the What does your typical espresso rate? survey, the majority are satisfied with their daily espressos. For me, there's good and there's better days, but there's very few days that aren't enjoyable. Keep in mind that your personal bar moves up over time. I would have been writhing in ecstasy ten years ago over an espresso I consider "good" today.

[heyduke]

I would say that most of my espresso's are good, some great, and very few bad. If I could figure out why, I would probably be rich since that seems to be the problem with making espresso. There are so many things that have to be done just right, fresh coffee, the grind, the tamp, ect. Even when you think it is just right it isn't. It all depends on the espresso gods.

[RapidCoffee]

I'm not expecting espresso from an aeropress. The thought is that if my average experience might be better with an aeropress than with an espresso machine. Slight difference will be muted by dilution with milk or water.

Your point is well taken. I'd rather have a good cup of Aeropress/French press/drip/vac pot/whatever than a poor espresso. Heck, I'd rather have a cup of good tea! But other things being equal, I greatly prefer espresso over any other method of coffee brewing. (BTW, I'd argue that the differences between "aeropresso" and espresso are more than slight.)

I guess my question is: how often are you able to make "really good" espresso? I'm not talking about "god shots" but something savory and enjoyable.

Every day, my friend, every day.
____
John

[JoesCup]

I'd rather have a good cup of Aeropress/French press/drip/vac pot/whatever than a poor espresso.

That is my point...

Every day, my friend, every day.

And that provides the hope I need. Should I splurge on a big e61 machine? or get an SL-70?

[mgwolf]

How much money do you have to play with. The Solis is a very nice machine and will give you very good espresso. If you are coming from a point where you're not sure you'll like espresso, then I wouldnt spring on an expensive machine without testing the waters. You'll probably find out that you like what you make on your Solis and in 6 months or a year will be itching for a bigger machine. So with that in mind, get a machine you could get good resale for (ie a name brand) so you won't take too much of a beating when you upgrade. And don't forget a good grinder. Michael

[RapidCoffee]

Should I splurge on a big e61 machine? or get an SL-70?

To some extent, allow me to echo Michael's thoughts. I gather from your first post that you have a Gaggia espresso machine. The Solis is the same class of espresso machine (single boiler, dual temperature), and is more of a lateral move than a major upgrade. Based only on the info in this thread, I would not recommend it for you.

Since you enjoy milk-based espresso drinks (cappuccinos, lattes, mochas), you will probably be happier with a heat exchanger, which allows you to brew and steam without waiting for a boiler to change temperature. HX machines start at ~$750; the more forgiving E61 brew group brings the price up to ~$1000.

More importantly, good espresso depends more on the grinder than the espresso machine. Without a decent grinder, an espresso machine upgrade will yield minimal benefits. Be prepared to invest at least $150-$200 for a good grinder ($400 gets you into really good grinders).

For better or worse, espresso makes greater demands on the equipment than any other coffee brewing method. This is reflected in the equipment cost. Only you can decide whether this kind of investment is worthwhile. If you need help justifying the cost, many of the site members are world-class rationalizers ("wow, I saved over $1000 at *$ in the first six months alone!").

Excellent low-priced brewing alternatives include French press and Aeropress (but these do not make espresso). And regardless of the brewing method, you will need a good grinder!

Good luck with your choice.
____
John

[Cathi]

While the Solis is similar to the Gaggia in many ways, there is one very big difference (for me): steaming power. If you are going to be making more than one milk based drink at a time, you will really appreciate the difference between the Solis and the Gaggia (I have experience with both). The difference is night and day. I was able to pick up a refurbed Solis on Fleabay. They come and go, so watch for awhile. The Gaggia will be going to hubby's office and the Solis will be our back up machine and go on vacation with us. A Solis should keep you happy for long enough to decide if you really want to drop the big bucks for an HX machine or beyond.

That being said, I find my HX to be the easiest, fastest and most forgiving to use.

I will echo what the others have said about the importance of a REALLY GOOD grinder. It is gospel. Don't waste your time with anything less than a Rocky (I've not used) or a Cunill Tranquilo (I have). Tim posted a link to some Super Jolly's that look like a great deal (if you've got the space), which can be had for less than the price of either unit if purchased new. An excellent grinder will make a difference regardless of what you are using (be it Drip, FP, Aeropress or Espresso).

All of these folks have way more knowledge than I do, but I've tried to give you the benefit of my experience (limited as it is, but similar to where you are coming from).

[Beezer]

Your Gaggia should be capable of producing good shots, assuming you're using fresh beans, a good grinder, and good dosing/distribution/tamping technique. Before you think about upgrading your machine, maybe you need to look at other variables. What kind of grinder are you using? Are you using fresh coffee and grinding, dosing, and tamping correctly? People often blame their machine, when maybe they just need a good grinder, or fresh coffee, or better technique. I'm not saying that your technique is bad, but without more information it's hard to say where the problem lies.

Eli

[JoesCup]

The problem I had with the Gaggia is it seemed too cludgy to me, plus I didn't care for the plastic construction. I'm sure I could turn good shots with one that works, but I just kind of got fed up with it.
My beans were a few day old intelligentsia via my cunill tranquilo. Anyone have the link for the cheapo mazzers? I missed it. Would it really be worth upgrading my tranquilo to one? So far the tranquilo has been doing a decent job of grinding, especially when using WDT to cut down on spillage

I grew up in Seattle. I had Cafe Darte, Vivace, Peet's, and a bunch of other great coffee places. Here there is nothing. Literally nothing. Except one of those "push here for latte" machines. I know I love coffee. I love espressos. I love clover coffee. But like RapidCoffee says, I would rather drink a really good cup of brew than some tainted espresso. And yes: the solis beats the gaggia for me based on steaming abilities, at least I could use it to steam milk for aerobrew without having to surf the boiler. I've pretty much decided that for my money, I'd like an E61 HX machine. Buy it once and be done.

I just can't decide between (yes...clones) an Expobar or an Astra. I don't have huge amounts of funds, and these appear on the used market from time to time for decent money. Right now I am waiting for espressoparts to finally ship my order with my aeropress....

It's not that my time is super valuable because I am a hotshot. I am just very over scheduled and don't have time to "milk" an espresso from a machine. I am willing to pay for quality, but I don't have thousands to spend

[Cathi]

Not sure if they're still available, but it's on Tim's recent thread about grinder upgrades. I tried to cut and paste it but it didn't work (I'm a dork).

HTH

[HB]

Voila.

[JoesCup]

A bit of follow up... my Aeropress arrived. Just in time for me to head home for Seattle. The Aeropress has given better quality than all of the coffee shops I have visited on the east coast, except for Grumpy. Luckily, now I get to reset my memories of good espresso with a tour of Seattle's finest shops

Note: I'm not saying the aeropress is better "espresso" I am saying it is better "quality" in that it tastes better than the charcoal water "espresso" I have been served in many places around here.