www.wholelattelove.com: our caffeinated commitment to you

School me on espresso machines for farmers market

Need advice about equipment or want to share your latest discovery?

Link to "School me on espresso machines for farmers market"by poison on Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:11 pm

I'm looking into making a move from just selling online to a booth at a local farmers market. I'll need to upgrade from my Pulser. Which machine would you guys recommend for that use? I'd need something capable of multiple back-to-back drinks, of course, and I'd be hoping for high-ish volume.

I've thought of Vivaldi II, Astra Gourmet, Bricoletta, even the new vibiemme Dual plumbed with commercial certs. What's your guys opinions on dual boiler vs. HX for commercial applications? Is there anything special I'd need to run successfully off a generator?

Speaking of generators, I'll need one o them, too. Quiet is my main concern, outside overall performance. Any suggestions?
poison
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Nov 29, 2005
Location: Caffeination

Link to "School me on espresso machines for farmers market"by poison on Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:07 am

Maybe add to the list the Dalle Corte Super Mini? :twisted: I wish!
poison
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Nov 29, 2005
Location: Caffeination
www.klatchroasting.com: USBC champion, voted 2007 WBC 'best espresso'
www.klatchroasting.com: USBC champion, voted 2007 WBC 'best espresso'

Link to "School me on espresso machines for farmers market"by Richard on Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:28 am

poison wrote:I'm looking into making a move from just selling online to a booth at a local farmers market. . . . Quiet is my main concern, outside overall performance. Any suggestions?

Is a commercial lever machine with a gas-fired boiler a possibility for you? I know nothing of them other than that they are available from more than one manufacturer and that sans pump they would be virtually silent.
Richard J. Wyble
Richard
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Sep 14, 2006
Location: Massachusetts

Link to "School me on espresso machines for farmers market"by roblumba on Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:56 am

I would recommend a La Marzocco GS3. ;)
Stable, accurate temps, fast and capable of back to back shots with plenty of steam power.
roblumba
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Feb 02, 2006
Location: San Jose, CA

Link to "School me on espresso machines for farmers market"by poison on Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:43 am

GS3? I just recently read about the new, 'revised' pricing. I wanted to go on a killing spree. Freakin idiots. Stupidest thing I've heard, that bait-and-switch.

But the gas powered boiler? Hadn't thought of it. I'll look into it. Got a link for something like that?
poison
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Nov 29, 2005
Location: Caffeination

Link to "School me on espresso machines for farmers market"by Richard on Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:31 am

poison wrote:But the gas powered boiler? Hadn't thought of it. I'll look into it. Got a link for something like that?

As I said, I don't know anything about them other than their existence. I believe both Rancilio and Astoria have commercial lever machines which have gas-fired boiler options.
Richard J. Wyble
Richard
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Sep 14, 2006
Location: Massachusetts

Link to "School me on espresso machines for farmers market"by Matthew Brinski on Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:21 pm

I have been considering the same thing for several farmers' markets in my area, and have talked to various people about machine requirements, health requirements, etc. over the past 18 months.

First, if you haven't done so, I would talk to the health dept. that regulates the city / county of where you will be operating. What I have discovered here is that the sanitation / equipment requirements are the same for a concessionaire at a farm market as those for a cafe. I'm required to have a three bay sink, hot water, milk at a consistent cold storage temp., etc. Maybe the requirements aren't as demanding where you are, but I know of vendors here who have been shut down on the spot for stupid little things.

Second, I think it's easy to under-estimate the machine that is required for serving people, because it's easy to equate farm market with small operation. After talking to experienced people for advice, I was basically told that anything less than a two group commercial machine is customer service suicide. If you plan on doing true back to back espresso based drinks, anything less than a GS3, DC "SUPER" Mini, Simonelli Appia, or the like will fall short on recovery and temp management when busy.

Third, I don't mean to sound like a downer. I haven't killed my idea of trying, but the reality of making it happen correctly is a big step.

If you are looking for a good generator, the best one I have seen (and heard) in person is the Honda EU6500is. It isn't cheap, but it is extremely quiet / provides both 120 and 220V service, and will manage a LM GB/5 2 EE.

If you're trying to push whole bean sales at the market, maybe do individual pour-over service. (and you'll need a decent grinder for all of those who want their coffee ground)
Matthew Brinski
 
Posts: 185
Joined: Feb 02, 2006
Location: Woodland Park, Colorado

Link to "School me on espresso machines for farmers market"by roblumba on Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:28 pm

poison wrote:GS3? I just recently read about the new, 'revised' pricing. I wanted to go on a killing spree. Freakin idiots. Stupidest thing I've heard, that bait-and-switch.


The price change has been debated and the higher price has been thoroughly explained and justified. There is little reason to think that the price should be the former $4500. Those that continue to think it should be $4500 and are still upset about the price change either simply cannot afford it, don't want to spend that much on a machine, don't want to accept or believe the facts, or just have a hard time getting over their emotions. The GS3 is worth it's price and would do great at a farmer's market.
roblumba
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Feb 02, 2006
Location: San Jose, CA

Link to "School me on espresso machines for farmers market"by roblumba on Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:40 pm

FYI,

"WRUX", on this forum, has a catering business and last I heard he had 2 GS3's coming for his catering business. I don't know how things are going with that, but he had reasons to choose that setup over other's. You might want to check with him and see how it's going.
roblumba
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Feb 02, 2006
Location: San Jose, CA

Link to "School me on espresso machines for farmers market"by WRUX on Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:56 pm

Hi,
Yes we now have 2 GS3's for catering. Catering is really no different then any other kind of espresso service except for perhaps a cart which has to be licensed with the city. With a catering service, we essentially need to have a commissary, a licensed food preparation facility. One unique aspect of our "catering" business is that we, like most caterers take full payment for our service up front to run an open espresso bar. This is opposed to a farmers market type situation where you collect money. From the several pay per drink gigs we have done, the city requires us to pay a $100 licensing fee to the city right off the bat.
I think this is one reason that many of those who run espresso setups for farmers markets often have a vehicle setup that then serves as their commissary. I have to question the success of this because at any one time I can go on Craigslist and find 5-10 of these espresso vans selling for about $30k. With that said, I urge you to not underestimate the time, dedication and backache it takes to run a business like this. Hauling around a 200lb $5K machine is no trivial matter.

We bought 2 GS3's to replace the La San Marcos we have been using. We have saved about 30lbs in weight with the GS3's which now means it's possible for one person to carry a machine. The GS3's allow for a non plumbed service with it's pour over capability's. But most important is the drink quality. The GS3's simply meets or exceeds the shot quality of a GB5/ FB80.
In fact, had they simply called the machine a a GB6, a single group, pour over, 110volt gb5, or better yet a Mistral. Few would have argued about the price. In fact, looks wise, the Mistral was designed as a bit of a copy of the original GS machine so perhaps coming full circle, the GS3 should have rightfully been called a Mini Mistral, Boy would that changed the $7,500 paradigm. In fact having had hundreds of shots pulled from Stumptowns Mistrals, I have to say that what we achieve with the GS3 is much closer to a Mistral the a GB5. If anything, Marzocco should be faulted for poor marketing as I don't even think they knew what a fine machine the GS3 would turn out to be.

Ok, I got a bit sidetracked. Let me add this, if you are thinking about a propane machine. I don't think you can use it indoors. If you decide to bring in a little extra money or have some inquires about having you serve a function indoors, You'll be stuck and realize how the flexibility of a GS3 would have payed off. Also, you only need throw your back out once, moving a 200 pound machine, to realize that having your head barista, YOU, not able to work their shift could be disasterous.

With that said, you rarely get a second chance to repair a botched reputation. Never compromise the quality of your drinks.
That should have been the Buckian philosophy from the beginning. Now look where they are at....
-Wes
WRUX
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Feb 16, 2008
Location: PDX

Link to "School me on espresso machines for farmers market"by ppopp on Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:08 pm

Matthew Brinski wrote:If you're trying to push whole bean sales at the market, maybe do individual pour-over service. (and you'll need a decent grinder for all of those who want their coffee ground)


I really like this idea. You could set up an operation like Blue Bottle has here:

http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espr...eral/307433?Page=2

Look for the pic about halfway down with the Melitta cones lined up. One operator could be brewing several cups at once, and you could offer a variety of beans. Overhead would be very low, and I think you could attract a very wide client base. I'm thinking there are a lot of people out there who enjoy a cup of regular brew every day but would never dream of walking up to a stand with an espresso machine.

My father would fill his travel mug before heading to the farmer's market every Saturday morning and would frequently have people stop him to ask where he got his coffee. For some reason they were always surprised when he said he brought it from home.
Peter

Know beans, know coffee. No beans, no coffee.
ppopp
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Jan 16, 2007
Location: Boulder, CO

Link to "School me on espresso machines for farmers market"by poison on Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:36 am

Wow, a wealth of information here, thank you all for the replies!

I live near Santa Monica. There are 20-30 farmers markets within easy driving distance. I've spoken to a couple market managers, and one in particular was interested in having espresso drinks brewed at his market. We have Groundworks locally, who has booths at some farmers markets, but they only serve drip from airpots. Drip would be a no-brainer, and something I would do either way, though definitely not from an airpot. I've seen coffee shops with the cone filter rack set-up, and it is cheap and highly effective. I'm not sure if drip only would be the best idea. I need to think about it.

Anyway, the back story is that I got fired from my day job recently, and don't really want to get back into the high end protective security I have been doing for 10 years. I've had my coffee website up for 2-3 years now, and I'm thinking of taking another step. The farmers market seems to be a potentially good baby step.

If anyone has any more ideas or input, let her rip, please! :D
poison
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Nov 29, 2005
Location: Caffeination

Link to "School me on espresso machines for farmers market"by iginfect on Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:05 am

Gimme coffee in Ithaca has a farmers market stall. http://www.gimmecoffee.com/locations_market.php I've never been there as I live 120 miles away but have visited both of their stores in Ithaca and in Trumansburg. Their baristas as a rule are friendly. Check them out.

Marvin
User avatar
iginfect
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Jun 29, 2006
Location: central new york

Link to "School me on espresso machines for farmers market"by poison on Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:19 pm

Hey, Scace owns/owned an Astra, right? What's his forum name, i'd like to PM him. Anyone?
poison
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Nov 29, 2005
Location: Caffeination

Link to "School me on espresso machines for farmers market"by ppopp on Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:25 pm

poison wrote:Anyway, the back story is that I got fired from my day job recently, and don't really want to get back into the high end protective security I have been doing for 10 years. I've had my coffee website up for 2-3 years now, and I'm thinking of taking another step. The farmers market seems to be a potentially good baby step.

If anyone has any more ideas or input, let her rip, please! :D


Let us know how it works out.

And please, post the address of your coffee website.
Peter

Know beans, know coffee. No beans, no coffee.
ppopp
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Jan 16, 2007
Location: Boulder, CO
www.cafemakers.com: good coffee brings good business
www.cafemakers.com: good coffee brings good business

Link to "School me on espresso machines for farmers market"by poison on Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:40 pm

Thank you, I will! I'm not a supporter here, so I won't post my web address, but it's not too hard to find. :)
poison
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Nov 29, 2005
Location: Caffeination

Link to "School me on espresso machines for farmers market"by jesawdy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:45 pm

poison wrote:Hey, Scace owns/owned an Astra, right? What's his forum name, i'd like to PM him. Anyone?

Hint 1 - Greg moderates the Bench forum.
ppopp wrote:And please, post the address of your coffee website.

Hint 2 - The little Globe icon in a forum member's information is a link to web pages.
Jeff Sawdy
User avatar
jesawdy
 
Posts: 1583
Joined: May 12, 2006
Location: Black Mtn, NC

Link to "School me on espresso machines for farmers market"by poison on Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:58 pm

Ah, bench, thanks.
poison
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Nov 29, 2005
Location: Caffeination

Link to "School me on espresso machines for farmers market"by poison on Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:47 pm

Cool dude, that Greg. 8)

I spoke to one of the farmers market managers today. Interesting stuff. I may be able to start without an espresso machine, though I'd probably do it pretty quickly anyway. Not sure yet.
poison
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Nov 29, 2005
Location: Caffeination

Link to "School me on espresso machines for farmers market"by PaniniGuy on Fri May 16, 2008 2:00 pm

We've also been looking at outdoor farmer's markets and I popped over here to see about generators.

While I'd agree (who wouldn't?) that a couple of GS3s would be ideal, fact is most operators, including us, don't have that kind of cash to invest in a supplemental income stream, at least not at the outset.

That said, I wouldn't dare cater with a consumer machine. It would have to be a light commercial machine at minimum. We use Cimbali Jrs. which have plenty of recovery (3+L boiler) and are built like tanks - you could drop it from the table and it would laugh at you. As it's a much more tradition Italian HX design with smaller portafilters and baskets, pulling shots on it is a totally different animal than the Linea we have in our shop, requiring different grind/dose/tamp and a bit of temp surfing when it's coming off idle, but a good barista can make it sing in a catering situation.

Is the quality as good as the shop brew off the Linea in a more controlled environment? Sometimes yes, sometimes no, but always drinkable. Is it better than what the farmer's market consumers will get at any shop within walking distance? By a mile. Two even.

Besides, in an open-air farmer's market situation I'd be much more concerned about the ambient temp/humidity and what it's doing to the grind than I would about the brewing device being absolute state-of-the-art.
Aldo Coffee Co.
Pittsburgh, PA
User avatar
PaniniGuy
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Oct 20, 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Next

Return to Espresso Machines