Scace Thermofilter Temperature Device - Page 9

[jason_casale]

I was wondering if there is a scace for the la spaziale 53mm machines anyone know.

[HB]

From one page back...

Well I'm supposed to get off my dead ass and get the 53mm version out the door. I've built several and I'm gonna be supplying Espresso parts NW with them. Gotta get a few free hours to get it jumpstarted. So they're coming, and Terry will be the guy from whom to buy them.

[gscace]

I was wondering if there is a scace for the la spaziale 53mm machines anyone know.

There's gonna be. Terry's been after me to do one, and I've finally gotten the details sussed out. Should be in a few weeks.

-Greg

[HasBean]

Can you keep us posted when they will be available, I know I'll be wanting one for sure

Steve

[King Seven]

What happened to the one from the WBC testing? Has Sanders got it?

[Niko]

I just wanted to kick off my first post with a thank you to Mr. Greg Scace.
I finally got your device last month for my two La Spaz machines and I love it. It's a great tool to use and it helped me adjust my offset temperature for my older S1.

[chelya]

Does anyone know about Scace 2?
Is it worth waiting for or should I just get the first version while it is on h-b 2nd anniversary sale?
(the picture is from http://www.espressoparts.com/ site)

[gscace]

Does anyone know about Scace 2?
Is it worth waiting for or should I just get the first version while it is on h-b 2nd anniversary sale?
(the picture is from http://www.espressoparts.com/ site)
<image>

That's a hulluva deal on the reggler thermofilter. Ask yourself if you want pressure measurement as well. If you do then you may want to do the Scace 2 thing. I sent 24 Scace 2s to Terry this week and he has them now.

-Greg

[chelya]

That's a hulluva deal on the reggler thermofilter. Ask yourself if you want pressure measurement as well. If you do then you may want to do the Scace 2 thing. I sent 24 Scace 2s to Terry this week and he has them now.

-Greg

Mr. Scace Thanks for the answer. I'll go with the original one then.

[houdina]

Just got my Scace 2 in the mail and decided to play with it a little. I have a 3 group EE Linea at home and I got out my tools and installed a stock gicleur in the first group a 0.7mm in the second and a 0.6mm in the third. The pressure gauge on the Linea was reading 9.0bar when the element was off and the pump on. Here are the results for the groups

Group 1 ? 120psi=8.27bar
Group 2 0.7mm 112.5psi=7.75bar
Group 3 0.6mm 110psi=7.58bar

I don't know the size of the stock gicleur but it flows a lot more then the 0.7mm so I would guess 0.9mm. I still have to try with no gicleur and see how accurate the machines gauge is.

As an aside when watching the temp of water during a pre-shot flush, it takes a lot longer for group to get up to temp with the smaller gicleur, which makes sense.

Gregg

[Niko]

Greg,
Any idea when you might have a Spaziale version of your new device?

[gscace]

Greg,
Any idea when you might have a Spaziale version of your new device?

Sorry to be asleep at the switch here. I didn't see this post until June 8. The deal with the Spaz's is that I drew up and built two laSpaz thermofilters. I used one to make sure it worked right, sent both to Terry and off they went to folks who wanted them. The groundswell of desire for 53mm thermofilters after those two left was a bit underwhelming, so I didn't invest in any parts inventory. If folks want em I'll build em, but I gotta believe that there's demand before I sink money into machined special parts. Lately I've had a couple of requests, so I'll prolly make a few specials once I get on top of the Scace2 thing, Send me a private message with yer email address in it and I'll let you know when I do.

-Greg

[steve]

I only had the thermo filter for a couple of hours before the flow rate valve blocked. What is the best care and best way to clear the hole :?

[jesawdy]

from coffeed.com, here:

Hi there:

Unscrew the filter / flow orifice from the plastic body. Unscrew the brass orifice cap from the filter. Rinse the daylights out of the orifice. Make sure that it is absolutely clean and that there is no loose thread sealant. Look at something light coloured thru the hole to make sure it is clear. You can use a very fine needle to gently poke at the hole if you need to, but be careful you don't enlarge the hole. Rinse / wash the daylights out of the filter, on both sides. Clean all of the old thread sealant off of the filter threads. I've used Loctite 242 (removeable, blue stuff) as thread sealant when installing orifice caps onto filters. Non-hardening pipe sealant works also. There's a bit of a fine line between too much sealant, which can come loose and plug up the hole, and not enough, which leaks. Try not to have excess sealant on the tip of the filter. Also, notice the direction of flow arrow on the filter and assemble it right. Finally, install the filter / orifice back into the plastic body. I've discovered that you don't need to use any sealant here. The plastic seals against the brass just fine. Remember that these are tapered threads. If you crank down on them you can split the orifice cap, and you can also damage the plastic body. Don't be a gorilla.

Have fun. lemme know if you have problems. I'm gonna be at a conference next week, so I'm gonna be incognito from Monday thru Thurs as I ain't takin a 'puter wid me. Lemme know if you have trouble before then and I'll write you back with helpful suggestions and crappy English.

-Greg

[gscace]

I only had the thermo filter for a couple of hours before the flow rate valve blocked. What is the best care and best way to clear the hole

PM me if you need more help, or don't feel comfortable doing it. The orifice hole is pretty small, but it's sposed to be protected from clogging by a filter. Lemme know if you want me to fix it for you or if you need any other help in getting it to work properly.

-Greg

[cdrikari]

Wanted to say first that I think the Scace Device is really a cool idea and I'm happy that he came up with it. Being able to consistently measure the temperature across machines and adjustments (even if there appears to be a lot of debate on what it might mean) is awesome.

I did have a couple of questions about the accuracy that is being discussed though. Pardon me while I work through this.

I don't have any idea what thermocouple probe Greg is using other than Type T, so used the assumption that he's using high-tolerance T thermocouples with a tolerance of +/-.4%

Assume that you would plug that into something like a Fluke 50 Series which for temperatures <100C has an accuracy of +/- [.5% +.3C]. (Which I think most people would. Decent price for pretty decent accuracy.)

If we assume that water at 96C is being felt by the probe in the device, that would mean that the measured temperature would be 96 +/- 1.18C (.004*96 + 0.3 + 0.5) or 94.82-97.18C (202.7-206.9F).

So the numbers may not mean what people want them to. (For instance, if I got a Scace Device, went home and was desperately trying to get Schomer's '203.5F' I might succeed at that at the expense of having a nice temperature, but lousy espresso.) In fact, the original 203.5 really only means that Schomer's original rig read that when he got great espresso.

The point being, that me getting 96C on my device and you getting 96C on yours doesn't mean anything more distinct that we know that we are within 2.36C of each other. (And don't get me wrong, 2.36C is pretty darn good.) But people seem to be assuming a much tighter margin of error.

Which I think means I'm really missing something. Help?

-Jesse

[HB]

Which I think means I'm really missing something.

For the record, I use the thermofilter almost exclusively for determining the thermal characteristics of an espresso machine as part of equipment reviews. The particular temperature readout, whether it is 202 or 203.5, rarely concerns me. My interest is that the thermofilter indicates the same "X" readout when subjected to "X" temperature every time. In other words, I'm after consistency, not absolute precision for the purpose of sharing precise temperature measurements that others could then theoretically reproduce when brewing espresso.

That said, if you want to compare temperatures with others, the first step is calibrating the device in boiling distilled water. The error limit is significantly smaller between say 212F and 203F than two arbitrary temperatures within the thermocouple's possible range. As to the precise error limit of a type T thermocouple between boiling water and typical brew temperatures, I humbly defer to Greg's greater knowledge and experience (note: Greg's response may be delayed because he's probably enroute to the SCAA conference in Minnesota).

[erics]

Which I think means I'm really missing something. Help?

I certainly defer to Greg also but in the meantime:



All you need to know is the temperature of boiling water/condensing steam in your location at that particular time. In my case, Maryland water was 211.3 F so I made a tag for the thermofilter and adjusted the meter accordingly.

[cdrikari]

I'm completely with you on the consistency end of the scale, and for home use, you're dead on for the altitude-compensated boiling calibration as well. (Though I'm guessing a few enterprising souls have access to more extreme equipment...and have probably used it. Like Greg for instance. )

*blink* Right. Duh.

You calibrate using altitude compensated boiling point. The boiling point is right next to where you want to measure, so it's darn near ideal. If everyone passes the cal result along with data -> no issues.

I'm going to go see if I added stupid sauce to my morning coffee today. (And maybe pull a shot while I'm there.)

Cool. Thanks for providing the required calibration. (pun intended.)