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Sample roaster needs serious dirt removal

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.

Link to "Sample roaster needs serious dirt removal"by King Seven on Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:11 pm

Hopefully people here can help with this. I have recently acquired a beautiful Gothot 5 barrel sample roaster - the same model as this one which is all pretty:

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This is ours which looks ok here:

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However its condition is appalling. Whilst mechanically sound (sort of, more on this later) whoever used it last needs to be taken outside and given a thorough kicking. Filth of the worst kind everywhere. Encrusting just about everything is a layer of oily, rancid, charcoally coffee sludge - up to 1 cm thick in some places! As we slowly take it apart piece by piece to start cleaning a little advice on what best dissolves this kind of stuff would be great!

At the moment steel wool, some general cleaning stuff only go so far...

I will detail the restoration when I get to more interesting stages, and probably also ask advice about the old wiring and adding a few niceties (temp gauges, gas flow gauges etc)

Also any advice on what to polish up metal parts with would be nice, but for now it is serious cleaning stuff that is the priority.

Thanks,
James
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Link to "Sample roaster needs serious dirt removal"by PeterG on Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:09 pm

James-

I'm jealous! GREAT sample roaster! You will love it.

Assuming the crud you refer to is built-up coffee oil, among the best things to use is espresso machine cleaner, you know, purocaff, pulycaff, terso-fa, etc. Most of these are compounded of Trisodium Phosphate (TSP) and citric acid, and straight TSP will work well too.... (be careful, however, NOT to let TSP come in contact with aluminum).

Some roasters swear by isopropyl or ethyl alcohol to dissolve creosote, but I have never tried it. Usually, I just use a chisel to get the big chunks off and espresso machine cleaner to dissolve the rest. An overnight soaking works wonders.

Best of luck

Peter

p.s. if you find an extra Gothot sample roaster let me know...

pg
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Link to "Sample roaster needs serious dirt removal"by King Seven on Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:35 pm

The stuff that is proving tricky is the build up in the air vents from the back of the roaster running down underneath. I've taken the off and soaked them in a variety of solutions but I need to find a way to scrub the inside - which isn't easy because of their elbow shape.

Really looking forward to getting the roaster up and running - it is so beautiful I don't want to mess up the refurb.
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Link to "Sample roaster needs serious dirt removal"by Ken Fox on Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:32 pm

Gosh, after reading your post, James, I'm so glad I bought my sample roaster new :roll:

I've heard of WD-40 (the spray stuff) being used to dissolve most any gummy, greasy, mess. It might work for your purpose but since it almost certainly is NOT food safe, you'd need to be able to wash it off with some sort of detergent or soap and water to get off all traces. I have no experiences with using WD-40 this way, however.

As to your long range plans, getting a thermocouple inside the roasting drum will be a challenge, and once you get it in there you don't want it to be chewed up by the stirring vanes. I ordered a custom ensheathed probe from Omega, and it took me about a year to figure out how to install it:

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Easier than this, and perhaps more practical in a multi drum setup like you have, would be to make a simple stand with an ensheathed straight thermocouple that you can position during each roast. Although somewhat less accurate and repeatable than my permanently mounted probe, I found this sort of arrangement quite useful and perhaps 85% as reliable as permanent probe I'm now using:

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The above is an early picture from eons ago; I now use my Fluke for temperature monitoring when roasting, which adds to the accuracy a bit as well.

I have a gauge mounted in-line on the gas flow. Due to the fact that the burner adjustment valve is on the roaster side of the gas flow path, what I see is actually "backflow," and gives an inverse reading to what a gauge mounted after the adjustment valve would show. Nonetheless, since it is repeatable, it is hugely useful in roasting. I would not know where to start (flame height wise) if all I had to look at was the flame, without getting some indication of how much gas is actually flowing.

Good luck James and let us know how this works out.

ken

EDIT: Out of curiosity, I examined my sample roaster carefully with attention to the inside of the drum, using a bright flashlight. The roaster is clean, inside and out, aside from minimal chaff and a little of the high temperature food safe grease I use through the grease zerks (and where that grease ends up). The inside of the drum is clean. I have owned the drum for 4+ years and probably put around 300lbs (or more) of green coffee through it. Since sample roasters are not generally used for production (as I use mine), that may represent a fairly large amount of use. In any event, it is a little hard for me to figure out how your roaster could have gotten into the condition it is in, unless the people using it never made any attempts at cleaning it during its prior service life.
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Link to "Sample roaster needs serious dirt removal"by RoasterRob on Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:32 am

Hi James

What a fantastic find. Please do post details of the restoration. Can't help you much with cleaning methods. I have built a handful of FB roasters. Have just started building a 1 kg drum roaster, at the moment it is a box full of laser cut parts and a couple of rolled drums.

Rob
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Link to "Sample roaster needs serious dirt removal"by cannonfodder on Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:58 pm

I purchased a second hand Cimbali Max that was totally encrusted with old oils and had beans fused into a solid mass above the burrs (it was stored for two years with beans in the hopper and grounds in the doser). I got the worst of the big chunks off using a small screwdriver. Once the hunks were out I soaked everything in JoeGlo. Worked like a charm and it looks new.

Another thought. Since we are talking about oils and bean residue on steel parts, put them in an oven and run a self clean cycle or two. The super high heat should burn off most of the carbonized beans and oils; you will be left with ash and smoke. Then you can hit the rest with backflush detergent, soak and wipe.
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Link to "Sample roaster needs serious dirt removal"by HB on Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:14 pm

cannonfodder wrote:Another thought. Since we are talking about oils and bean residue on steel parts, put them in an oven and run a self clean cycle or two.

Interesting thought, but self-cleaning ovens come up to temperature very fast; I worry the pieces might be permanently warped.
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Link to "Sample roaster needs serious dirt removal"by Jasonian on Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:54 am

I would also think that a self-cleaning oven won't do much damage to oils that have been burned in place through lots of batches of roasted.

coffee oil rules don't apply quite the same way to roasting gunk.

I've used some SS spray polish that worked wonders, but it did, unfortunately, take some effort on my elbow's part to work fully, but it was MUCH faster than just soaking or using a "chisel".

I also did try soaking, and this acid bath was far more potent than OTC machine cleaners. It would've taken days. Not a very good solution, and I'm sure not very good for the metal.

I wish I knew what to tell you!
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Link to "Sample roaster needs serious dirt removal"by RoasterRob on Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:18 am

Have you thought about sand or bead blasting, I know of espresso machine boiler insides being cleaned this way. You would want to blast a small area and inspect before getting stuck in. You have to be careful with thin sections so as not to bend or distort. Sheet metal for example can be blasted carefully at an angle (not square to the surface) and at not too close a distance. Don't expect a painting and blasting outfit to know to be careful with certain parts. We had the panels on an espresso machine distorted by an operator that was used to working on heavy steel sections. The place the powder coater had directed me to was a block further down the road (my bad) the guy there was use to cleaning down classic car panel etc.

Rob
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Link to "Sample roaster needs serious dirt removal"by Jacob on Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:45 am

I don't know if it's the same roaster or not, but here is a story of a restoration "The Epic Journey":

http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1121040424

Image
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Link to "Sample roaster needs serious dirt removal"by RoasterRob on Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:38 pm

Hey James any progress on the roaster.

Thanx for that link Jacob, read the epic journey very interesting.

Rob
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Link to "Sample roaster needs serious dirt removal"by King Seven on Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:44 pm

Sorry for lack of updates - just been so busy. I am one barrel in to the dirt removal - so much filth! Picked Marty Curtis's brain a little, for which I am very grateful. Just need lots of cafiza and elbow grease!

Will post some pics soon....
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Link to "Sample roaster needs serious dirt removal"by Psyd on Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:10 pm

King Seven wrote:I am one barrel in to the dirt removal - so much filth!


Hey James, can you get yourself next to a source of high pressure steam? I've heard that use in other industries to clean oily-sludgey residues in :wink: the past.
They use water under high enough pressure (smaller the hole, the higher the exit velocity) to cut through 1/4" (and larger) steel plate. I'm guessing that a high pressure power-washer would do the trick. Sometimes these are available at a car wash, with soap (and wax!) delivered with the water. Pre-soaked stuff could be brought to the pressure washer section of the car wash and done in the back of a pickup truck. Wear good hand protection, regular washing up gloves will disintegrate under the pressure.
Eye protection isn't a bad idea, either.
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Link to "Sample roaster needs serious dirt removal"by Jacob on Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:41 am

Yesterday I took a new turn on my own little journey. I didn't choose a GS/3 in order to make latte-art! But my roasting adventure were not scheduled for another year or two, so I have been court completely unprepared :roll:

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Mine is working as it is - It were still hot when I picked it up :D
The previous owner, who had used it for a couple of years, said it didn't have any airflow control and that the caff-tray were superfluous. He had consequently run the roaster with double load and closed air-vent. The caff-collector were almost clean (which can't be said for the rest of the machine) and all he did to clean the roaster, were blowing here and there with compressed air.


BTW It came with some 3 or 4 year old greens to play with (hopefully more 'aged' than old)

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Does anyone know these G-codes? I got the impression fron the seller that these codes were some sort of international standard, but after googling allot I think they only have been used by the company that sold the roaster to the seller a couple of years back.
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Link to "Sample roaster needs serious dirt removal"by cannonfodder on Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:43 pm

That is a lot of coffee, but if it is really 3 and 4 years old versus aged coffee, it may be a bit on the muddy flat side. That looks like a nice little roaster, one day I may luck into a sample roaster, or give up and build one. I am not a greens master but I have never seen any standard G-code. Unless those are auction lot numbers. It could simply be stock numbers that are useless without the inventory form to correlate them to.
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Link to "Sample roaster needs serious dirt removal"by Jacob on Fri May 02, 2008 2:47 pm

182 pounds net. (662 samples at max capacity) :lol:
The coffee have been packed like that for two years, so ..........

Back to the topic of cleaning used roasters!

King Seven wrote:Picked Marty Curtis's brain a little, for which I am very grateful. Just need lots of cafiza and elbow grease!

Some parts before, and some parts after, one night in cafiza:
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Some of the same parts after an additional couple of hours in ordinary household oven & grill cleaner:
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Link to "Sample roaster needs serious dirt removal"by Jacob on Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:33 pm

Warning :!:
To me It's a feature, but if you only want to clean things (not restore them) take care with the Cafiza. It's not the best paint-remover in the world, but the paint on my roaster didn't 'like' the treatment!


I'm stopping here! - I love the color which reminds me of old jeans 8)

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The future: If Arduino can marry miss Silvia I'm sure it's up to the task of babysitting my little roaster. First I will make it monitor things and do most of the logging, but in long rum I will program it to control the roaster.
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Link to "Sample roaster needs serious dirt removal"by mhoy on Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:56 pm

That is looking really nice. I've got a couple of AVR Butteryfly for some prototyping and temperature monitoring. Haven't had the time to do much with them yet, but for $20 each, pretty nice units.

Mark
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