Rumour of Dual Boiler, PID, Rotary Vibiemme: appears to be true

[cedar]

I heard a rumour today that a dual boiler Vibiemme will be available in the near future.

Does anyone know if this is true, and if so, any details? With the rotary pump?

[luca]

Does Vibiemme have any experience with dual boilers whatsoever? Don't they pride themselves on having the "true" e61 group and holding the patent to it?

[HB]

Rumors of a double boiler Izzo Alex recently came and went here. I've not heard anything about Vibiemme entering the market and I share Luca's skepticism. But if there's truth in it, Vibiemme will surely demonstrate it at the HOST conference in Milan. The usual suspects are already there, so first hand reports should trickle in next week. Roger started a thread about the conference here.

[cedar]

On the thread: Alternatives to the La Marzocco GS3

I hear that Vibiemme will introduce a dual-boiler, PID, rotary pump machine with the E61 group next month in Milan...

Perhaps it is true after all...

I just asked Stefano (Stafano's Espresso Care) and Jim at 1st-line about this in PMs. They may know for sure.

[Grant]

On the thread: Alternatives to the La Marzocco GS3



Perhaps it is true after all...

I just asked Stefano (Stafano's Espresso Care) and Jim at 1st-line about this in PMs. They may know for sure.

They have been sighted in Milan....more than a rumor!

Grant

[cedar]

in reply to PM:

Yes, it's true that Vibiemme is working on a dual-boiler machine. I should be receiving a test unit before the end of the year. However, realistically speaking, they most likely won't be on the market until next summer.

Maybe we will see some photos from Milan

[Grant]

...split from Alternatives to the La Marzocco GS3 by moderator...

Thanks everyone for the replies. I have not heard of some of the machines mentioned so I have some research to do. The advise that using the units is the best way to know and understand the product is good but not an option unfortunately. I did use a La Marzocco today--hard to go wrong with this machine, but $$$. The Vivaldi looks like a great option for my pocket book and I'm seriously looking into this unit which is available in my country.

I e-mailed Joseph Parrottino at coffeetech <www.caffetech.com> the same options I posted here and he too recommend the Vivaldi, but he also had this to say "If an E61 head in a double boiler is what you want - than you will need
to wait some time - as we are in the process of designing one in Italy at this time - when it will be ready is difficult to say." I wonder what the price will be and what company he is referring to?

Why the E61 brew group by Faema? I have based this choice on many reviews like the following: http://www.wholelattelove.com/art...e61_brew_group.cfm

Orian

There is a PID'd Vibiemme Double Boiler at the show in Milan at this moment....hopefully it will not be too long before it hits the market in North America...if so, I will have them.

Grant

[cedar]

Grant do you know if there are any pictures or specs of the Vibiemme Double Boiler available anywhere. I have looked at the Vibiemme site but nothing yet.

[Grant]

Grant do you know if there are any pictures or specs of the Vibiemme Double Boiler available anywhere. I have looked at the Vibiemme site but nothing yet.

Not to my knowledge. It may still be in the very early stages but I know very little other than it exists....may still be in prototype form.

I am waaaaaay down the food chain. I have been querying my supplier for quite a few months on the status of the HX rotary version (plumbed) Vibiemme and am still waiting for that info...and now the double boiler version info is BRAND new to emerge.

If no one at the show can produce a picture or comes back with more info not under non-disclosure, hopefully Vibiemme and/or their North American importers can provide some additional information shortly, but I suspect the HX rotary to appear first. It could be a while yet, but the big importers will have that info first.

Grant

[cedar]

If Stefano gets a test unit before the end of the year as he suggests, I may be able to go and see it (I live 20 miles away), and if he allows, photograph it.

Beyond the specs, with two boilers, PID, and rotary pump, I wonder what the price will be.

[Rocket Coffee]

I found a couple of pics on one of our site sponsors flickr...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/w1r3d1/page2/

Image#4799 &#4800 I believe.

[cedar]

These two, I think. You can see the PID display between the gauges. (photo credits to Terry Z)




I suppose a production version might be less spaghetti-ish inside.

cheers,

PS: there are other pictures worth looking at on Terry's flickr site

[cedar]

Isn't that an Ulka vibe pump in the front though?

[Beezer]

Very interesting. Looks like they took the Domobar Super body and crammed two boilers and a PID into it. Kind of like what Expobar did with the Brewtus.

I agree that it looks like they're using a vibe pump, though maybe this is just a prototype and the production model has a rotary pump. The boilers look sort of small too. Still, it looks like a nice alternative to the current dual boiler choices.

I'll be interested in hearing what the price is, and when it will be available here in the US. I'm guessing it'll cost north of $2 grand.

[MarkD]

Wow, what a beauty compared to the Brewtus I really like the way they designed the placement and buttons of the PID. I think I've just seen my upgrade path become clearer.

[MellowCat]

thanks for the pics.
How would the flushing routine be affected on such a machine?

[miKe mcKoffee]

thanks for the pics.
How would the flushing routine be affected on such a machine?

Most DB machines simply require a group stabilizing flush from idle varying from 1 to 4 or so ounces depending on group/plumbing design. For instance old style Linea AV requires about 4oz flush from idle to warm up the plumbing running out from the saturated group to the AV meter and back in for the shot. Once in production mode zero flushing for temp required. Home use you'll likely always need a short pre-shot group stablizing flush. Big thing it's not like counting down from flash for temp etc. like with an HX, just getting the group and associated plumbing fully up to temp from idle.

[terryz]

I will let Jim P. speak for the import details but in conversation with the owner of Vibiemme, it is a for sure deal for the dual boiler PID machine. The machine at the show was simply a mock up of what it will look like but the rest of the details are unclear at the moment.

The most exciting news is that there are several machine producers that are moving forward with new designs. Good stuff for all.

[keepitsimple]

thanks for the pics.
How would the flushing routine be affected on such a machine?

It's the opposite to the cooling flush on an Hx machine. What you aim to do is make sure the brewing components are up to temperature, rather than cooling the overheated water from an hx down to just the right point.

If you're making espressos one after another in quick succesion, you don't need to bother, but if you are using one intermittently, then you do.

What makes it easy, is that you can't really overflush, as you can't get the machine higher than a specified temperature, so there isn't any of the counting/watching the stream and stopping the flush at the right moment as you have with many domestic hx machines.

As a matter of habit, I tend to hit the double espresso button on mine, and let the water flow though while I'm grinding the shot, even when it sometimes isn't really necessary.

[1st-line]

I will let Jim P. speak for the import details but in conversation with the owner of Vibiemme, it is a for sure deal for the dual boiler PID machine. The machine at the show was simply a mock up of what it will look like but the rest of the details are unclear at the moment.

The most exciting news is that there are several machine producers that are moving forward with new designs. Good stuff for all.

Terry,

Thanks. A small number of the following units is slated for delivery at the end of this year:

a) Vibiemme PID dual boiler espresso machine - the design of this espresso machine was implemented in early 2006, and

b) A direct connect rotary vane Vibiemme HX espresso machine - the design of this espresso machine was implemented in late 2006.

For 2008, there will be a direct connect, rotary-vane pump PID double boiler model available - ultimately a combo unit of a and b above. Currently, specs are not available. My apologies.

Yes, I agree with others that Vibiemme does not have dual boiler experience like some other companies, but they do spend the time in designing and testing products before launching them into the international marketplace. They even send out some prototypes before a full launch.