Rough surfaced puck - Page 2

[IMAWriter]

In my case, the puck appearance is most often dependent on how fresh the coffee is. That is, I get levelled, nice and dry pucks that come off easily when the beans are allowed to rest for sufficient time after roasting, whereas I get this sort of a wet surface otherwise. This, along with other observations regarding how over-temperature brewing effects the puck apearance/characteristics, makes me think that in my case, the appearance of the puck is easily correlated with brewing quality. For example, when the coffee do not rest for enough time, the wet-appearance of the puck correlates with the taste imperfections that you cannot avoid in a coffee that has not rested for enough time. Also, when the water temperature is too high, you get a layered puck that doesn't neatly get knocked off at once but rather comes off in layers, or will lead to the part of the puck adjacent to the bottom of the basket to adhere to the metal. On the other hand, when the water temperature is too cold, this do not effect the puck but manifests itself in the light crema, and the shallow extraction. These are my humble reservations with regard to how the puck looks like on my Professional and how it correlates with some factors.

Moreover, I would like to comment that it is still reasonable to demand a nice and dry puck that comes off at once with a (direct-)lever machine even though there is no direct mechanism to release the pressure from the group immediately after brewing. This is because of the good amount of very hot air that resides above the brewing water within the group, or within the brewing chamber, which very effectively dries the puck at the end of the extraction in case the lever was pulled all the way down. I even use that feature to dry the second-type pucks after steaming milk by simply raising the lever, locking in the portafilter and just leaving the lever. The steam power at the point of frothing will then be sufficient to dry the puck automatically in a cool fashion.

Wow!...all such good stuff....much applies to me, I'm afraid....
I've been home roasting 7 years, and am pretty sure my 5 day rested blend (which has been complimented by several CG'ers and GCC folk) is not the culprit. A very nice blend in my Anita.
I suspect it's partly technique, funky temperature (layered pucks have been a problem using the CMH grinder, though I'm pretty sure thru no fault of the grinder) and maybe my inexpertiness with the flat bottomed Reg. I had the very slight curved 58 Reg previously.
Anyone with a convex they want to sell?
I really appreciate the time you took to reply. I just SO messed up right now!

[IMAWriter]

Thanks also to you and Greg.
I purchased the grinder from the fine folks at Orphan Espresso, who I trust when they designated my grinder as "espresso ready."
It's gotta be something I ain't doing...or maybe some I AM doing

[IMAWriter]

Jack, your suggestion to go with a blend (or SO) and stick with makes sense. I did so for 2 weeks. Both my Home roasted Yemen Sharisi and my "house blend." As i said, my blend is pretty generic, and has always worked before with my SJ and Anita.
A friend is bringing some Kid-O in a couple of weeks....
I'd hate to think my awesome hobby, home roasting is the cause of all my grief! Quick, hand me a knife

[peacecup]

IMA,

I don't mean to say for sure its the beans - it could easily be the grinder. The grinder should be able to produce a fine enough grind for those arm-breaking pulls you were writing about. Is it the same grinder? If so you should be able to dial it in to a 30-sec pour. One problem with manual levers is that try as one might, its nigh impossible to maintain a consistent pull pressure among shots because one naturally accounts for differences in the grind/dose/tamp. Thats why I suggest keeping beans, dose, tamp very consistent until you get the grind dialed in.

I'm not at all sure that all the talk of overdosing applies to 49-mm home lever machines. These machines are so different than the 58mm pump machines that the overdosing folks are discussing. Try filling the cremina basket so that tamped it almost touches the dispersion screen. I can almost guarantee a longer pour time.

Also the Fellini move probably works better, and is only useful for full baskets when more water is needed due to limited headroom.

You should watch the video I just re-posted on the Lure of the Lever thread. You can see both how full I pack the basket, and how I dose from the hand grinder drawer directly into the basket (nowadays I do this on a plate with the basket removed from the portafilter).

PC

[IMAWriter]

yep...I'm having a real hard time getting the grind into the basket...I used the funnel from an Aerobie press, but it's walls are too thick, and left a 1/4" circle of space around the basket after stirring the grind.
haven't found a yogurt cup small enough to do the WDT...yet.
I'll take a look at the video.
Happy 4th to all Americans, here and there.

[peacecup]

With the PeDe I cut the corner off of a greeting card and laminate it with clear shipping tape. I position the open corner over the basket (sitting flat on a plate out of the PF, but in the video its in the PF). I tap the bottom of the drawer like I'm playing a guitar and the grinds pour quickly, clumpfree, and evenly into the basket. I usually stop once or twice to tap the basket gently to settle the grinds. This all takes just a few seconds, makes almost no mess, and any loose grinds end up on the plate where they can be easily added back to the drawer of tossed out. I challenge any behemoth electric grinder do fill a basket as quickly and easily. Lastly, I only put as much coffee into the PeDe as I need for a shot - there are almost never any leftover grinds. I use two scoops of whole bean from a regular coffee scoop for a double, and this keeps the dose very consistent.

The dosing in the video is a bit stylized, but you get the point. I've been thinking of shooting a short clip on the more "technical" aspects of low-tech grinder dosing!

PC

[peacecup]

The video is on this thread:

lure-of-lever-t7380.html

But when I try to play it it breaks up a lot. You might watch it here instead:

http://video.google.com/videoplay...686433339075092164

[IMAWriter]

revelation. For grins,I fashioned a plastic cup to size for a WDT pull with the Cremina. I tightened the PeDe a touch, threw in 15 grams of my non dry processed Sidamo roast into the PeDe, got the Cremina to tamp...ground, , dumped into the cup, stirred. tapped the PF once, removed cup, only a slight distribution needed, as my cup sunk a bit too low in the PF...since fixed.
The pull started as drips, for about 10 seconds, then a mouse tailed formed. I estimated about 25 seconds for the total pull, not counting the 8 seconds for pre infusion.
The taste was full bodied, and sweet. Yowser.
For now, the WDT stays, as I obviously need work somewhere on my technique.
For grinds, I fashioned a no stick bottom for my PeDe, as the grounds have a tendency to stick a bit.
Here's a picture...crude, but effective. The grind now moves freely out the drawer.

[mgwolf]

Bob,
Take a Yoplait yoghurt container, trim out 2 inches or so for the WDT funnel. Then cut it vertically and roll it tight enough to fit. Scotch tape or packing tape will smooth out the inner/exposed edge enough to last a month or two until you can find a brand of yoghurt that will work. Michael

[IMAWriter]

I created a 'cup" using a small plastic cup which I managed to cut down, taped as you described...
Used it earlier today...worked pretty well, as it's very thin.
Amazing (to me) that the stirring makes what was once a grind that gave me a 12 second pour into a grind that almost choked the Cremina. Obviously, breaking up the clumps helped. Truthfully, it didn't even look like my grind was that clumpy. I could actually stir the grind within the drawer, but it's a bit easier to accomplish within the cup.
With the foil insert, the grind slides easily into the cup.

[IMAWriter]

It's amazing how sensitive the PeDe is to a change in beans....my 4 day old home-roasted Yemen Sharisi, no matter how tightly I have the PeDe (to the finest grind I can get, the burrs rubbing egregiously), and using the WDT still literally POURS through the basket. It's a 10 second pour, no squirts. Yet 9 day old Black Cat, which is only 2 blended Brazilians gives me over 20 seconds, with a slightly looser grind setting.
I'm still getting those 2 layered pucks, though, after both the first and second shot.
The taste is fine, not earth shaking, and not quite as sweet as I would have hoped.
A work in progress, still.

[peacecup]

If you dose the Yemen right to the top of the basket it should slow down the pour, especially if you tamp hard. Is the Yemen roasted very dark? In my experience dark roasts require finer grinds.

The PeDe I'm currently using will choke the Caravel with commercial Italian beans I buy at here at the supermarket. Roast date unknown, but I keep them in the freezer once I buy them. A 1/4 turn or less will change the pour speed considerably. But the small Caravel basket is also very sensitive to dose. A mm or two difference in the height of the puck will alter the flow rate from a slow drip to a steady pour, putting a lot of pressure on the lever.

Manual levers are quite tricky because its nigh impossible for the barista to keep the pull pressure constant in the face of changes in resistance due grind, dose, and tamp. My experience with the Caravel over the past month tells me that it is less forgiving than my spring-lever Ponte Vecchio (still awaiting parts from Italy!).

I assume the Black Cat tastes great in the Cremina. I don't understand why you're not able to choke the machine with the PeDe. Most, if not all of mine will do so with my lever machines. Perhaps you should ask OrphanE if it did so with their machines?

PC

[IMAWriter]

Jack...Doug @ Orphan has been following this thread, and PM'd me. They are such great folks. They even offered to swap with me. Our coffee community is lucky to have vendors like these.
The Black cat, purchased locally was on the tail end of freshness...9 days...I packed to 1/4 inch from the top of the Elektra basket....dumping every grind out, it was a touch over 15 grams! I'm wondering if the WDT I'm doing is actually creating "fines?" The Yemen, no matter how tight I tightened the grind adjuster, and with a 40lb tamp, all i get was a large, uniform blondish cone of liquid which filled the 1.5 oz glass in 10 seconds. Strange.
At the tightest setting on the PeDe (which, by the way is an awesome grinder for my Aerobie Press) does fine if I tamp about 40 lbs and twist. The pours are not "honey dripping", by any means, but no squirts either.
I purchased an old Rio with the Mazzer doser mod from a well respected CG'er/HB'er...as I had an SJ previously, It should be here by the weekend, or Monday.I'll see what my technique will produce. I don't want to blame the PeDe. I may just not have my lever technique in order yet.
As an old American curve tamper guy, I also wish I had a convex base for my Reg. Just can't swing the $40 right now, though I probably should just get it.
I have a beautiful 51mm brass base from Reg, lightly used with my former Europiccola Millenium.
Anyone want to trade?

[IMAWriter]

My cherished friends here...
I decided to ignore some (well intentioned) advice and try something different.
Instead of loosely locking in the PF until I was 2/3rds the way on the up stroke of the lever, then locking in, I tried locking in the PF all the way before starting the up stroke, then slowly raising the lever.
At the top, I did a small 4" down stoke, then raised the lever up, counted to 5, then lowered, with firm even pressure...about 35lbs, as usual. the pour was monkey tailed, striped, and dark brown, not black...temp was good. I reached the end with no blonding whatsoever. 1.25oz all crema.
I customarily swirl the shot glass once...just a 1/4" of black.
Tasted wonderful. All the components sang...10 day old Black Cat (which is all Brazilian), 20% home roasted Colombian Pitalito (cherry-ish), and 20% home roasted Yemen Sharisi (spice.)
Another thing...I really overfilled the PeDe...18 grams ground for the OEM Cremina basket...rapped down on the grinder to dislodge stuck grind to get it all.
Dosed using the WDT, and gently rapped the PF down on the tamping surface once. I did a NESW finger distribution. I believe I had about 14 grams in the basket. A 30 lb tamp left about 3 millimeters from the top. The most I ever packed in there. The puck was also perfect. Smooth, no crevices, etc. And it ejected with no layers.
I've always been afraid of overdosing...not anymore.
My new espresso arrives with a client from Chicago Friday. Kid-O, and fresh Black Cat, plus my own blend. No time to get him to stop by Metropolis..
I bet I can loosen the PeDe now...it was about as tight as I could get it, but it didn't seem to make the burrs lock too much.
my Doserless Rio from my great friend Jon R arrives tomorrow. However, I am impressed by how evenly the grind emerges from the PeDe. Hand grinders rock, and mine will be my night-time grinder. This is gonna be fun.
Thanks to all who have stuck with me here. Y'all rock.

[peacecup]

I think the overdosing issues are related to the relatively flat, shallow pucks found on 58-mm baskets, and probably pump machines. We lucky lever folks just don't have the same issues. We preinfuse at our own pace at low pressure, and pull as we feel. We're all familiar with the results....

The Ponte Vecchio has a pressure-release port that allows air to escape when the lever is pulled down (spring-lever = reverse) for pre-infusion. I think with manual levers when the lever is pulled up air is pulled through the puck. This is why people do the lock-after-lift method. If you've got enough coffee in there there's no where for it to go is there? No need to lock-after-lift!

Glad to hear things are tasting good. Fill er up!

PC

[HB]

I think with manual levers when the lever is pulled up air is pulled through the puck. This is why people do the lock-after-lift method.

The Lusso, which has the same group as the Export, certainly pulls air through the puck on the upstroke. It is easily seen and heard when using a bottomless portafilter. The only lever I've used that doesn't pull vacuum during an upstroke is the Gaggia Achille.

[IMAWriter]

Pullled some nice shots today with the PeDe and some 8day old Kid-O....
Personally, I like this coffee a bit more than Black Cat..YMMV.
The Black Cat my client brought is just 2 days from roast date...I'm going to wait another day or 2.
The 2nd shot was even better. I guessed at fine-ness on the peDe and got lucky, I guess.