Restoration of an Olympia Cremina - Page 6

[hperry]

They don't answer at the pace that I'm used to, but they do answer. I got an email back on an inquiry in a couple of weeks. I'm not sure that in every part of the world immediate answers to every question are viewed to be as important as they seem to be to us in the US.

What about the US distributor?

[HB]

What about the US distributor?

1st-line recently added Olympia parts pages to their site for the common stuff. For anything else, you would have to e-mail sales@1st-line.com (they will not accept part orders over the phone to reduce the chance of errors).

[stgui2]

Hi Steve,

I was going to place this in the forum but do not find a "title" for it. Besides, it contains my interpretations that might be misleading. If you feel it should be posted, please go on and post it or let Dan post it and edit it if you or him have to. I am afraid that some of the questions raised here have been revised elsewhere but do not find an answer and dont want to be redundant.

Also I dont want to "disorder" your advice so this comment is full with pieces from several "components"

I really appreciate your page and come back after each step I give. The rubber o-ring in the group head which must be the easier to get off, broke 2 x-actos. It looks like that was your very same problem.

Photos... My Sony Cybershot has been for repair in Houston for 3 months and God knows what it will give. I am including a photo that compares the Cremina with the previous SPIDEM I have. The Cremina is much bigger.

here it is



I am rebuilding my second Olimpia Cremina 67 (the first one was stolen) and I have a couple of questions:

1. the glass water level indicator is cracked abt 7.5mm on each end. no apparent leaking but before disassembling it this part was heavily covered with Teflon tape. Can I use it like that? I know that I should change the water level indicator, it is the real solution, but living in Mexico and 1st-line not insuring against breakage, this will take at least 8 months between the moment you place the order and the time you receive the item due to red tape in customs. My question to you is: how much is possible to be flexible abt this situation? or give it a try? my concern is what Steve Robinson says: pressure and a glass tube which is 26 yrs old... I would not like to have the tube blowing if it is dangerous.

2. In the group head, when you take apart the nuts on the top and get the piston off, the tube that holds the piston in the group head seems to me to be made of a certain type of rubber, cannot tell want is the material but it is definitely not solid. I ordered the complete gasket set for the Olympia Cremina and even in the diagram I do not seem to identify ANY soft part inside the group head. To situate it, it is found above the washer "with 4 holes" that Steve told us abt in his 1st part of the webpage: repairing an Olympia Cremina. Any indications as to what this might be?

3. A suggestion for future Cremina repairers... My dentist is my friend... and I asked him for some used "dental bits" that I installed in a mini-drill. Both group head gaskets were so hard and so old that I had to "play dentist" to be able to cut them in several places to be able to break them to take them out. the x-acto also broke. Even more, after I took the old rubber part and the o-ring in the group head, I had to use thinner to be able to remove whatever was left of the rubber parts.

4. the asbestos that covered the water tank looked burnt. I took it all off and came out without any problems. Polished the tank but has some soldering on it. Made out of full marine brass quality. For what I have read in the forum, there is no need to replace the asbestos coverage. or do I need to?

thanks to all

stgui

[bobcraige]

1. Don't even think about this, you must replace the broken tube, don't waste your time rebuilding the machine and leave a broken tube in place. To do so would be exceedingly dangerous.

2. Above the piston is the piston rod seal. It is held into the group by an internal snap ring and a washer. This seal must be replaced as it likely will be old and tired. When this seal goes, water will leak out the top of the group. If your other seals are as hard as you say, this seal must be at end of life.

3. Be extremely careful if you do this not to touch the metal into which the seals go. It is very very easy to cut into the castings and ruin them by damaging the seating surface of the seal. An Exacto knife is a very poor and dangerous tool for this purpose. Much better is a set of varying shape hooked picks made for seal removal. They will allow you to carefully get under the seal without damaging the metal seal seats machined into the castings.

4. The insulation can be removed with no problems, it is not necessary for the machine's proper operation.

[mogogear]

Bob says the truth!! That glass could blow with no warning.

A seal tool might be found at an auto supply store to help you remove seals easier. Also to help you solve the sight glass problem, see if you can get an accurate measurement with a metric caliper or some such device of the outside diameter of the glass tube( I don't remember the length but I bet it is laying around the site in somebodies head!!). A suitable replacement may be found in Mexico at some coffee machine repair facility or espresso repair shop. Just a idea.

[stgui2]

Thanks to you both of you.

1. I was afraid of this response with respect to the tube: it could simply blow in my face. I ordered at 1st line the tube and will have to wait. Tant pis!!!

2. I got the message abt the rod seal: but is there a way to replace the piston rod seal? Steve Robinson does not talk abt this and his machine was in considerable worse shape than mine. It is surprising that when u replace ALL the gaskets, this only one is left out. Is there a mechanical restriction "why not possibly replace it"? so u would have leaks "only there", nowhere else...

3. My group head seat is very slightly scratched (abt 1/10 of mm) at one single point for abt 7 mm. and from then on I got the gasket out with the point of the x-acto. Got it from Bob: no more x-acto! Thks for telling me abt the danger but I think I was lucky.

4. it has been removed and brussed so it looks nicely gold and shows the soldering procedure which is as the rest of the machine "SOLID", very solid.


The fork lever that holds the piston has an opening width of 11 mm at the begining of the fork and 19 mm a t the top. Is this normal? if it is, no doubt the circlips wear out with the opening pressure of the fork at the end; if this is not normal, I presume I could put some pressure with a press, which shoulod be the normal width?

Sorry for the measurements in mm but I have a lot of trouble with the partition of inches and ounces and feet and... miles. Decimal system is so easy.


thks to all!

[bobcraige]

1. Good, but you really had no choice.

2. Yes of course. This is covered in Steve's article I am sure, but here is how to do it. The seal is held in place with an internal circlip. This should be removed with an internal circlip pliers to compress the circlip until it just lifts out. Next you will find a washer and then the lip seal in the well of the group casting. Push the seal out with a small wooden dowel from the top if necessary. Install the new seal (which is included in the full gasket set) with the large diameter end down into the well in the group casting. Next drop in the washer and install the circlip with the circlip pliers. When you reinstall the piston, you must be careful not to cut the lips of the seal. Steve wrapped the threaded end of the piston rod with tape to prevent the edge of the threaded part from cutting the lips. Make sure that you lubricate the shaft, all the seals and the cylinder bore lightly with DC 111 which is also included in the gasket set. Also, carefully start the piston seal lips into the cylinder so as not to cut them as you insert the piston.

3. Probably the seal will conform to this damage and still seal, but it is a potential source of a leak. This is why it is important not to damage these parts.

The fork tangs should be parallel through their length. The width at the crotch of the fork is the right dimension and so you may wish to carefully attempt to straighten the damage, but it could break. I measure about 17mm the whole length of the the fork.

[stgui2]

In a previous post I indicated that for whatever reason, my fork was split 19.2mm at its end. I went to a mechanic and with the fork at hand, he confirmed what Bob had previously suggested could happen: If you force it too much to close, you might break it. Mainly if it was oversplit before. So, I bought a couple of 6mm stainless steel screws and stainless steel washers and also the bolts shown as in the picture and will have to adapt the width of the screws (between the bolts) to make the fork get relatively close to the 17mm it should have. The circlips already blew part of the axis so I have no choice but build up a solution or buy another fork which I dont think is necessary. The bolts match the bolt at the top of the axis of the piston so my solution will not look too far out of place.

thanks for all your suggestions

[mogogear]

I don't know the strength rating you should use for these "pin" replacements but there is considerable force exerted on this pins. I am thinking they won't last long before they distort or break. I was speaking to Alchemist and he was giving me some estimates of PSI forces in the range of 1,000- 1,4000 if my addled memory serves me. A hardened pin might be what you should be looking for.

[bobcraige]

I have read your post several times and I do not understand if you broke the fork or not. Try straightening it, if you break it, you can order a new one from Olympia:

Code: 04.0134.00.00 Price: CHF 50.00 (€ 32.89) ($42.02)
No. pieces: 1 Description: FORK

In any event, these pins must be hard and so your bolt is not an acceptable solution.

Code: 04.0135.00.00 Price: CHF 4.00 (€2.63) ($3.36)
No. pieces: 2 Description: PIN

Normally, the replacement circlips are included in the gasket set, but you can order them if needed:

Code: 02.3601.06.00 Price: CHF 1.00 (€0.66) ($0.84)
No. pieces: 4 Description: CIRCLIP FOR SHAFTS @ 6MM

[stgui2]

The fork is not broken (yet) but I am a bit skeptical to try to force it to close it up, and while closing it, to break it. Thanks for the references of the spares. I certainly get far much better advice/help from the forum than from Olympia CH. they simply do not reply.

What I will do is to go on and order the fork and try to close it when I have the replacement here at hand. If it does not break that's better, if it does I will have the spare and not to wait 6 more months. As said before, getting anything through Mexican customs is more of a problem than anybody could imagine.

Yes the circlips are indeed included in the gasket set and the cylinder that receives them came with the machine but I managed to be able to get the glass pipe via a friend who passes through the US. I don't think I will be that lucky with the fork but I want to get to learn how to use the machine and get a superb coffee while I receive the spare.

Thks again and now I will go on replacing the rest of the gaskets while I receive the glass pipe. How do you remove the cover of the frother to be able to replace the gasket? and the water tank's cover? I tried but it seems to be very hard to remove to access the screw. I am afraid to scratch them both.

thks again for your help

[mogogear]

With the body surround removed:
To remove the frothing valve and knob assembly( depending on your models age) Take off the brass cap/ nut behind the valve on the other side of the brass block that the valve attaches to. The valve assembly is "cone shaped" or tapered so it merely is a press fit in to the brass bar. With the nut removed ( and the wand removed) I grasped mine with a pair of pliers with rubber jaw protectors and gently rotated the assembly to loosen the seals fit. Then I could remove by hand. There are o-rings in the valve assembly also and the center cap in the knob must be removed to gain the access to the nut holding it in place. It is straight ahead from there. I am typing this fast, so I hope it is understandable.

[the almighty]

Hi Steve Robinson

I need your opinion regarding the new siphon tube. How did you manage that the new tube is the same position as the old one when screwed in to the edge of the thread? I'm rebuilding my Cremina ( '73 ) these days. I've bought a new siphon tube and found out that the new thread is longer than the old one. Screwed in to the edge it would look some where up to the sky. Filing down the thread I consider as unwise because it would spoil the chrome coating, how did you solve that one?
Thanks man,

Marcel

[mogogear]

Not Steve here.... but,

Siphon tube? Just to clarify terminology first... The one that screws into the back of the grouphead? That transports the water from the boiler into the group head?

[the almighty]

Hi
yep, exactly that one which goes into the back of the group head. The one that transports the water from the boiler into the group head.
Yes this the spot. Any solution for the problem i've mentioned?

Marcel

[mogogear]

I believe that filing down the end of the siphon tube would do nothing to help. You could apply teflon tape to the threads of the tube - this would give it some tightness to stay a 1/4 turn from being completely tightened. The tube is not in danger of actually coming unscrewed after bolting in place so that may be a option for you.

I thought about a small rubber o-ring inserted in to the female threaded hole and pushed to the furthest end. This might reduce the end of the travel the tube can screw into and thus solve the problem. I have a small reservation that the o-ring could somehow block this critical entry port to the group head if it ever degrades etc..

Anybody else? Rough up the threads on the tube a little to add a small about of friction ?

[bill]

If you can find a stainless nut that fits the threads you could screw it on, install the pipe and then tighten the nut to lock it in place?

[stgui2]

just an advice to avoid the o-rings. they are made in rubber and the temperature will cook them. they will work in the beginning but in abt a yr time, you will have to replace it. Take Mo's advice and use teflon to ensure the non-leakage. As a matter of fact, I avoided the o-ring and replaced with teflon in the frother. As a matter of curiosity, if you are rebuilding your machine, just look at the material of the gasket that seal the heating element to the water container. Why do they not furnish the o-rings there? As far as the length of the thread, it is not surprising . I have the impression that throughout the years, measures have varied in the construction of Creminas so they sent you the one that "will cover all" and it is for you to adapt the size.
best of luck

[bobcraige]

This is completely normal. The orientation is set by using a thread sealant to lock the thread in the proper position. The factory uses an FDA approved high temperature liquid thread sealant, but recommends Teflon tape as the most readily available solution-it is just as good.

[the almighty]

I've tried teflon tape. I think it's a good solution, it will take a couple of trys to get the proper orientation of the tube. I've got also a thread sealant ( Loctite 542 ) but am not sure if it stays in place when the machine is use. I wouldn't want in my espresso eventualy...
Thanks for all suggestions!
Marcel