Response from Mazzer on "Grungy" Burrs

[varuscelli_II]

Interesting development.

I guess Mazzer representatives must be amongst the forum members here, eh? Or at least they must read some of the posts...

I received a nice e-mail from Mazzer in Italy letting me know they'd really like to see the burrs in this photo that I had posted in my Mazzer Mini Old and New Burrs macro photo thread (http://www.home-barista.com/forums/mazzer-mini-old-and-new-burrs-a-macro-look-t3550.html), and Mazzer would actually like me to send the burrs to them.

But they didn't let me know if they wanted to replace them or just look at them or talk to someone about them or anything along those lines. The e-mail sort of left me hanging, although its tone was very polite. And of course I'd have pay to ship the burrs off to Italy, so I have to figure out whether I really want to do go through that exercise. And since I've already done quite a cleaning job on them, I'm not sure how much good it would do anyone -- unless, of course, they weren't happy with the general machining as well and wanted a closer look at that, too. (And as a side note, I'm betting that there's an awfully good chance the vendor I got this set from could provide Mazzer another set just like them -- if indeed any "batches" like this went out. It's certainly within the realm of possibility.)

Hmmm...wonder what I should do?

I'll e-mail their representative for clarification, but I do find it interesting (and encouraging) that Mazzer would like an in-person look at the burrs and that they contacted me personally to ask about them.

The power of the forum revealed.

Al

[TomP10]

My own two cents --- no way would I pay shipping. Mazzer should send you new burrs and pay for shipping to the factory. They are a large corporation, not a charity.

- Tom

[RapidCoffee]

I received a nice e-mail from Mazzer in Italy letting me know they'd really like to see the burrs ... and Mazzer would actually like me to send the burrs to them. ...

But they didn't let me know if they wanted to replace them or just look at them or talk to someone about them or anything along those lines. The e-mail sort of left me hanging, although its tone was very polite. And of course I'd have pay to ship the burrs off to Italy, so I have to figure out whether I really want to do go through that exercise. ...

Hmmm...wonder what I should do?

My two cents:
It's wonderful that Mazzer cares enough about their products to respond. But you should not pay the price for this. Ask them to send you a replacement set of burrs and a prepaid mailer. It's the least they can do, especially after you've invested so much time documenting your efforts.

Great job on the Mini disassemby photos, BTW!

EDIT: oops, cross post. Great minds think alike...

[varuscelli_II]

My two cents:
It's wonderful that Mazzer cares enough about their products to respond. But you should not pay the price for this. Ask them to send you a replacement set of burrs and a prepaid mailer. It's the least they can do, especially after you've invested so much time documenting your efforts.

I agree with you and think you've brought up a couple of very good points. Of course, it is my intent in the e-mail response that I'll be sending them to ask if they really want me to handle the shipping charges -- to give them the opportunity to make the offer to cover that themselves and give them a shot at magnanimity in the wake of my heinous post...

But really, I do think it's great that they care enough to respond. In reality, I'm not sure it's too surprising given their reputation for quality products. Seems like I read (in general) a hundred good things about Mazzer grinders for every one bad thing (other than nitpicks). And, of course, I'd think Mazzer would want to protect that good reputation. So to me, the response is a pleasant surprise but not a "totally caught me off guard" kind of thing.

As to your point about asking for a replacement set and a prepaid mailer, I agree that would be an absolutely reasonable request on my part. But I amend that to say that my request for a replacement set would seem reasonable if indeed the originals are not up to standards, and that's something for which I have no frame of reference. I was disappointed in them, but at the same time I just don't have the experience with grinders and grinder burrs and replacements to have seen anything to which I can make a comparison.

And, too...on requesting a replacement set, if indeed the ones I received are not up to standards, it would be a lot easier for me to request those from the vendor -- and have the vendor talk to Mazzer about it. That's certainly another direction I could take (if I felt I there was justification in pursuing the matter -- still making my mind up on that part).

Hmmm...

Al

EDIT: Thanks for the comments on the disassembly. You can thank Dan for a big part of that, though (encouragement, direction, and sharing of ideas).

[RapidCoffee]

As to your point about asking for a replacement set and a prepaid mailer, I agree that would be an absolutely reasonable request on my part. But I amend that to say that my request for a replacement set would seem reasonable if indeed the originals are not up to standards, and that's something for which I have no frame of reference. I was disappointed in them, but at the same time I just don't have the experience with grinders and grinder burrs and replacements to have seen anything to which I can make a comparison.

And, too...on requesting a replacement set, if indeed the ones I received are not up to standards, it would be a lot easier for me to request those from the vendor -- and have the vendor talk to Mazzer about it. That's certainly another direction I could take (if I felt I there was justification in pursuing the matter -- still making my mind up on that part).

Hmmm...

Actually, my thoughts ran somewhat differently wrt the replacement burrs, and had nothing to do with quality issues. Do you want to be without the services of your grinder for several weeks?

[varuscelli_II]

Actually, my thoughts ran somewhat differently wrt the replacement burrs, and had nothing to do with quality issues. Do you want to be without the services of your grinder for several weeks?

Ah! You are indeed an evil-minded and devilish espresso drinker after all, as reflected in your chosen emoticon.

Yet another good point. I could always go back to by old burrs in a pinch (ha! the ones I'm not really sure needed to be replaced in the first place).

But yes, if I were to go the route of sending the burrs all the way to Mazzer, it would be nice to have new ones in hand first (if indeed that's what they might offer to do -- and it's certainly not what they've indicated as yet; all they've said so far is that they'd like to see them and to please send them in).

So, you are correct, sir! I would not want to be without the services of the grinder, even though there are ways around that -- the most desirable of which might be to have good ones straight from Mazzer.

Al

[luca]

Part of the problem of internet and email communication is that it is difficult to get tone across. I'm not sure if the earlier posts were meant to sound indignant, but if they were, could I just remind you all that Mazzer is an Italian company. Most of these companies won't spend three bucks to have a native english speaker translate their instruction manuals, let alone draft an email! (Huh? Why isn't it working? I thought that I already "applied the forceage of the filtration lever to the decantation chamber"? ;P) I'm sure that a polite email saying that you would be happy to send them the burrs if they send you a replacement set and a prepaid envelope is all that is required. They might not understand the subtleties of cross-cultural e-communication, but they'll sure understand being without coffee for a few weeks!

Cheers,

Luca

[k7qz]

My own two cents --- no way would I pay shipping. Mazzer should send you new burrs and pay for shipping to the factory. They are a large corporation, not a charity.

- Tom

You know, there could be more going here than just this caliber of machining on your burrs. No telling what else might be lurking inside that Mini of yours that might be of interest to Mazzer. I'm thinking you should offer to send them the entire grinder and since you've done Mazzer this "favor", ask them to send you a Kony in replacement while they're looking into it..

Seems only fair to me-

[varuscelli_II]

Part of the problem of internet and email communication is that it is difficult to get tone across. I'm not sure if the earlier posts were meant to sound indignant, but if they were, could I just remind you all that Mazzer is an Italian company. Most of these companies won't spend three bucks to have a native english speaker translate their instruction manuals, let alone draft an email! (Huh? Why isn't it working? I thought that I already "applied the forceage of the filtration lever to the decantation chamber"? ;P) I'm sure that a polite email saying that you would be happy to send them the burrs if they send you a replacement set and a prepaid envelope is all that is required. They might not understand the subtleties of cross-cultural e-communication, but they'll sure understand being without coffee for a few weeks!

Cheers,

Luca

Hi, Luca

Just to clarify, I hope I wasn't sounding indignant earlier in this post. I used words like "I received a nice letter from Mazzer" and "I find it interesting and encouraging that Mazzer would like an in-person look," but I don't picture myself as having coming across as indignant about it.

In previous posts, though, I was expressing what I'd call "disappointment" in what I had received (but still not -- in my mind -- indignance). I haven't complained to the manufacturer or even to the vendor, but I have shown on this forum (via photos) what I think represents a pretty much objective view of the shape of the burrs I received (the photos aren't stretching the truth in any way). I'm not angry with anyone or demanding compensation or anything like that. I still am disappointed with the shape of the burrs, but only from the standpoint of Mazzer seeming to have an image of higher quality than seems to be reflected in the replacement burrs I received.

If someone who had experience in seeing and replacing coffee grinder burrs on a regular basis were to tell me, "Hey, that's what they all look like," I'd believe them and just go on with things as they are. But as yet, no one has told me that what I received was what burrs tend to look like newly out of the package. So, I'm left somewhat hanging with my limited experience and the little feedback that I've gotten that says those burrs don't look as good as they probably should.

(EDIT: Since Mazzer has told me that they'd like to see the burrs personally, that seems to indicate that they might be seeing quality issues themselves, based on the photos. I think that's a pretty reasonable assumption, or they probably would have no real interest in seeing the burrs or asking me about them. Seems a reasonable assumption, anyway.)

In any case...I don't feel indignant and hope I'm not personally coming across that way. No harm and no rant intended toward anyone.

I just want to put that out there in case anyone is seeing my words/photos as something other than what I mean them to be.

Al

[varuscelli_II]

You know, there could be more going here than just this caliber of machining on your burrs. No telling what else might be lurking inside that Mini of yours that might be of interest to Mazzer. I'm thinking you should offer to send them the entire grinder and since you've done Mazzer this "favor", ask them to send you a Kony in replacement while they're looking into it..

Seems only fair to me-

Brilliant.

As long as they don't talk me into paying the $500 shipping charge each way.

But you might be on to something here...

[luca]

Hi Al,

Didn't think that you sounded indignant at all. It was more Tom's response, I guess.

Cheers,

Luca

[varuscelli_II]

Hi Al,

Didn't think that you sounded indignant at all. It was more Tom's response, I guess.

Cheers,

Luca

Sorry, Luca, didn't mean to over-do it in my response. But you had me second-guessing myself and re-reading my remarks to make sure I wasn't coming across poorly.

And you're absolutely right on e-mail/posts to forums, etc. It's not like talking to someone face to face or even like a phone conversation. Tone and other more subtle parts of general communication can easily be lost in forum posts and e-mails.

Your comments were appreciated and you made good points (but I did want to make sure I wasn't being misunderstood).

Al

[old442]

(EDIT: Since Mazzer has told me that they'd like to see the burrs personally, that seems to indicate that they might be seeing quality issues themselves, based on the photos. I think that's a pretty reasonable assumption, or they probably would have no real interest in seeing the burrs or asking me about them. Seems a reasonable assumption, anyway.)

Al

It could be they either want to see them from a quality standpoint OR they may think you have counterfeit parts.

Kurt

[varuscelli_II]

It could be they either want to see them from a quality standpoint OR they may think you have counterfeit parts.

Kurt

Thanks, Kurt. Interesting point and that sort of thing certainly happens in other areas of manufacturing. And it's a possibility that I considered in an alternate version -- that of the origin perhaps being a third-party maker of the same parts (one that perhaps wasn't meeting proper quality standards) who sells to the vendors who make the parts available to us. But after some feedback from another forum member, I'm doubting that as a possibility. The packaging certainly looked legitimate enough, but I'm sure that the packaging couldn't easily be duplicated by someone who really wanted to. And the packaging has no Mazzer contact info on it, but maybe that's the way it's normally done (?).

(As an example, ever seen the counterfeit SanDisk compact flash cards and accompanying packaging that are sold on eBay and elsewhere? They are convincingly realistic looking, with only small differences that take an extremely close look to identify. Those cards function, but they are not the real thing and don't perform up to the standards of the real SanDisk cards. But we're talking millions upon millions of dollars spent yearly by the public on compact flash cards, so that's apparently an area that's worth tapping into by part of counterfeiters. Would manufacturing of counterfeit grinder burrs generate enough money to justify some company making them? I dunno...but I personally doubt it. )

The biggest thing to me is that I got the burrs from a very solid, well known vendor (of excellent reputation) who also sells Mazzer grinders, etc.. My guess is that they'd be getting their Mazzer replacement parts from the correct source. Admittedly, I'm no expert in these matters, but my best guess at this point is that I've got the real deal here.

Don't know if this would help, but here's what the packaging looks like.

[varuscelli_II]

Looks like Mazzer was only interested in seeing the dirty burrs as fresh out of the package. They apparently wanted to see them before I removed the grit, and it's a bit late for that.

As an alternative, I directed them to the 20 or 30 other photos I have of those same burrs (before cleaning) on my Mazzer Mini Burrs page, here:

http://www.ruscelli.com/mazzer_mini_burrs.htm

I'm guessing the entire series of close-ups of the new burrs right out of the package will do a lot to satisfy their curiosity. (I think they had seen only the one photo as shown earlier in the thread.)

Just to reiterate (in case anyone reading this wonders): I didn't originally contact Mazzer; they contacted me -- I think based on the original thread as posted here on Home Barista.

[espressme]

Al, Thank you for the photo journalism on the Mazzer Mini. If only factories would have such information available! I learned a lot!
richard

[varuscelli_II]

Al, Thank you for the photo journalism on the Mazzer Mini. If only factories would have such information available! I learned a lot!
richard

Hey, thanks richard. I'm glad you found the photos and/or text helpful. That's a big part of my wanting to post those images. We share our information and perspectives and we all benefit in some way from what others share with us. Good stuff all around.

Al