Rebuilding a Single Group Astoria Lever - Page 2

[bushnell_a]

That is a pretty machine. And a hefty price.

Borys, thanks for the offer for help. I'm going to contact GEEC first and see if they can get me the part. If that fails, I'll call you.

[Dr Jim]

There is a nice one on ebay - A La SanMarco

A pretty hefty BUY IT now price- but .... The seller gave me the dimensions as 21" h (to the top of the handle x 14"w x 18 deep).

Seems to be in nice shape, but you never know. Claims to be barista owned- maybe.
I know, sorry to feed the sharks, but

Har-umph! He says somewhat testily, for the $1500 Buy It Now Price, you could get a Refurbed Conti Prestina from Moschetti here:

http://www.moschetti.com/10_special/1_special.htm

Actually, upon re-consideration - although I cringe at these prices, I am also starting to believe that given the very limited supply of 58mm commercial-grade spring lever machines, and their ability to effortlessly produce near-perfect shots without endless tweaking and fussing, that paying this sort of money for a restored or pristine one isn't nearly as dumb as it first seems.

So what is out there for $1,500 or so ...

There is the Gaggia Achille at about $1,300, about which I cannot comment, since I've not yet used one, but it looks promising with a 58mm group, a decent-sized basket, and good temperature stability. However, it's direct-action lever certainly moves it out of the realm of 'effortless' - and the non-optional auto-frother shows a certain degree of designer confusion. Why hang a dufus-level frothing device on a machine whose price and aesthetic plant it firmly in the top-end, esoteric class?

It looks like $1,500 doesn't quite stretch into the super-HX class (Brewtus, S1, Elektra 60) but will buy some very decent hardware (Quickmill Vetrano, La Valentina, Isomac Mondiale) none of which I'd just throw off my kitchen counter ....

So why buy a 30-year old, used commercial lever machine, when there are brand-new, shiny consumer machines for essentially the same price?

Commercial gear is typically designed to deliver 150-200 shots per day, and to do so quickly and consistently. We drink a fair amount of coffee at the Lab, and are hard-pressed to drink 150-200 shots per MONTH - at this consumption rate it's safe to assume that a refurbed commercial machine will most likely outlive you.

But ultimately, it comes down to a matter of taste and consistancy. Modern HX machines are capable of producing some amazing God-shots, they are equally capable of producing utterly undrinkable swill and the dividing line between the two experiences can be pretty thin at times. Given their essentially unforgiving and 'twitchy' nature, I believe that these machines require a higher level of consistantly applied barista skills than most folks can muster on a daily basis.

Contrawise, I can just stagger up to the Conti, hung-over, bleary, eyes swollen shut, slam in a packed portafilter, and with a very simple double-pump move turn out shot after shot with little effort and no nasty clunkers. The worst shots I've had from this machine have been simply drinkable, and the best have been damn near God-like. Yes, the crema is thinner and paler than from a Super HX machine, but the bloody espresso is just so consistantly pure and clean-tasting with no sour or scorched notes, that I'm more than willing to accept this 'deficiency.'

So, asking top-dollar for a scarce and hard-to-find machine whose performance is arguably as good as anything on the market doesn't seem too out of line, possibly optimistic, but not ridiculous....

Cheers

Jim

[mogogear]

I would not bay the BIN price but I'll see what it really goes for- There was a 1960 Gaggia, not in at all perfect condition, that just fetched $3,600 Euros or so!! The second coming of the LEVER-AGE is upon us

[hperry]

As one who paid $1,500 for a used commercial lever I feel that I got an outstanding value. I was particularly lucky that the machine (a Termozona) although 30 years old, had only had a few months of use and was then stored on a shelf for 30 years. I'm pretty sure that today's Palanca is a lineal descendant of this machine.

I second Dr. Jim's comments regarding the ease of use of commercial levers. There is simply no fussiness and there are few sink shots. Basically fill the portafilter, tamp, and go. The Termazona temperature stays at about + or - 1 degrees for the bulk of the shot as measured with a Scarce measuring device. This is apparently attributable to the fairly unique HX implementation in this machine.

I have learned that there are differences between the Termozona and my HX rotary Bezeera BZ40. The Bezeera requires a flush to bring the temperature down. Then you wait fairly exacting intervals for it to recover to the right temperature to brew. Termonzona likes a flush and a steam release to bring the temperature up. Beyond that, getting the right cup is a matter of grind and tamp. The Bezeera's best shots are ristrettos. Unlike the Cremina, Termozona is not altogether happy with ristretto shots, and will not produce the .75 oz ones that I got from the Bezerra. It's no loss. I was pulling the ristrettos to get the smooth, sweet, deep flavor that I couldn't get with larger shots on the Bezerra. Termozona's (larger, 1.5 to 2 oz) shots have the same deep flavor and considerably more complexity - even thought they are substantially larger. The dark tiger flecking, considered desirable with HX machines, doesn't really exist with the Termozona. Crema is substantial, but lighter. I had to learn to view the coffee differently. Trying to choke the machine enough to get tiger striping produced awful (bitter) results in the cup.

In comparison with the Olympia Cremina heat issues are non-existent. The huge group dissipates heat, along with the heat exchanger control of temperature. The Sirai pressurestat also contributes to heat stability I am sure. You can make shot after shot w/o overheating. But the biggest thing vis-a-vis the Cremina is that it is much less "fussy." Cremina requires a fair amount of portafilter tapping, exact grind selection, and careful control of lever pressures to get a good shot. For some, this may even be a virtue. I'm impatient, however. On the days that I want to I can accelerate or retard the lever to achieve a desired effect (not all commercial levers allow this). On (most) days when I just want to have a good espresso I can approach the machine, pull, and achieve a great cup with no drama.

This is the first machine that I have used that does not have me looking to the next one in the hope that it will do it better. In part this is because, being forgiving and consistent, Termozona allows me to do better. Rotary pump machines make lots of shots possible in a short time and are probably necessary in a fast paced commercial environment. I'm beginning to think, however, that the best commercial levers might be the "best" home machines. At home, using coffee from the city's better roasters, I am able to pull shots that are equal to their best and to do it pretty consistently. Makes me happy.

[mogogear]

As one who paid $1,500 for a used commercial lever I feel that I got an outstanding value. I was particularly lucky that the machine (a Termozona) although 30 years old, had only had a few months of use and was then stored on a shelf for 30 years. I'm pretty sure that today's Palanca is a lineal descendant of this machine.

HP,
So I have seen a shot of Dr Jim's Termozona, your would like ............? Are they the only older levers to have this loop through the group head? I am now going to have to make sure that I stop into the Lab of Doom for sure just to get the nickle tour if Dr Jim has time and to make him prove he can pull a shot on a moments notice and bring me back to life

[Dr Jim]

HP,
So I have seen a shot of Dr Jim's Termozona

Actually, you saw pictures of Hal's machine in my lab - I have a Conti Prestina ...

Jim

[peacecup]

I've been waiting for Dr. Jim to chime in on this thread, as I've read his threads on the Conti with great interest (and an occasional laugh). In my opinion that La San Marco is a bargain at the BIN price if it's been maintained (which the seller claims it has). One could easily spend $1000 worth of time (I get >$100/day at my low-paying science job) searching ebay, etc., buy a $500 machine, spend another $1000 worth of time and effort restoring it, and wind up with a very nice consumer machine that will never match the La San Marco. All that said, I'm very happy with my very low-end Ponte Vecchio Export, which consistently produces drinkable, and occasionally very drinkable, shots, cost me $400 NIB, and fits in my back pocket (well, almost). If and when I have the resources and space to do so, I suspect I'll follow Dr. Jim's lead and find a commercial lever machine for the reasons he lists. If now were that time and I saw that La San Marco come up for $1500 BIN I'd grab it in less time that it takes to pour a doppio on my beloved PV.

Cheers,

PC

[peacecup]

BTW, if money were no object when I upgraded to a commercial lever I'd probably opt for new again - have a look at the Bezzera Ellisse:

http://coffee.hownd.com/product-5...llisse-al-2gr.html

PC

[bushnell_a]

So far I've gotten two conflicting answers on this. I'm reassembling the boiler and pipes on the machine. Here's the $24,000 question:

Teflon tape or not?

Not being much of a plumber myself, I have no idea why or why not to use teflon tape on the brass and copper fittings. Any thoughts?

[bill]

Drew,
Teflon tape is basically used as a lubricant for tapered pipe threads. You don't need to use it for copper connections as these are usually compression or flare fittings. The thread is straight and the seal is between the ferrule or flared pipe and the nut.

[bushnell_a]

Bill:

Perfect explanation. Thanks a bunch.

Drew

[bushnell_a]

Found an old photo on my camera card showing the closeup of the rust I was most concerned about:

this is the hole where the boiler bolts to the (12-pound) group, and I was concerned about the strength of the underlying metal.

[bushnell_a]

After stripping the frame of its paint, I went to work on this bit of rust with a wire brush attachment on my drill. It worked so-so, but it seemed like the rust was too hard. I ended up using a bit of C.L.R., which I applied and let soak for a few minutes, then used the brush attachment. This worked well enough for me to see that the rust didn't go deep enough to compromise the integrity of that area of the frame. Right about that time I found out that the powdercoating company would sandblast the remaining rust off the frame, so i stopped trying to remove it myself.

Here's a closeup of the area after powdercoat:

Hard to tell from the photo quality, but it's not much thinner than the surrounding area. Honest.

[bushnell_a]

Boiler endplate after much soaking, polishing, and burnishing:

[bushnell_a]

Top view, partially reassembled:

[bushnell_a]

Butt end of the boiler, also partially reassembled. Note the sight glass, which I managed to install without breaking. Of course, I haven't tried it out under pressure yet, so the jury's still out.

[bushnell_a]

New showerscreen:

One note about installing this screen: I couldn't do it at first. The metal is bent inward at the top edges, forming little teeth which grab onto a recessed groove on the outside of the piston chamber. Imagine a shower cap upside-down, or look at the old screen I took off the machine:

Anyway, the teeth bend far enough inward that I couldn't get them over the piston chamber, and I feared I was going to bend one of the teeth in the process.

Then comes the "A-HA!" moment: the screen is slightly convex on the face. The trick is to push upward on the center of the screen, causing the convex shape to POP! inward, which makes the face of the screen slightly concave, which in turn angles the teeth slightly outward. It still barely fit, but with a bit of patience I was able to work the teeth onto the cylinder. A couple taps with a hammer (with a small block of wood as buffer) and I heard the satisfying "SNAP!" as the teeth slipped into the groove. Pretty sweet.

[bushnell_a]

Looking very pretty so far:

[bushnell_a]

Just received an email from CMA. This machine left the factory on May 16, 1990.

[mogogear]

Just received an email from CMA. This machine left the factory on May 16, 1990.

Wow, beautiful job on your machine!! That boiler end plate is something. Brass gives a lot back after working on it. That first shot- no matter how much crema - is sure going to be satisfying- Nice nice nice!!