The Reason Rancilio Includes Plastic Tampers with Machines

[paisley]

Hi Everyone:

Many at home-barista.com are aware of my recent purchase of an espresso machine. I have the Rancilio Silvia with matching Rocky doserless grinder. I bought the unit some two weeks ago and it arrived on my doorstep a week ago today (Monday). I am quite pleased with the unit but still had some issues regarding one little inclusion in the box - the plastic tamper. It is important to point out that I had an excellent purchasing experience. Chris' Coffee Service deserves commending for the great service provided to its customers.

Since nobody outside of Rancilio could answer the question regarding the plastic tamper issue for me, I opted to take the question straight to the horse's mouth, so to speak, in hopes of receiving the real answer. The answer came today via email, straight from the VP of Sales for Rancilio. Upon request, I am sharing this since it was felt others might enjoy the answer as well.

So, without further ado, here is the reason the Silvia, a machine with iron frame, stainless steel exterior, brass boiler, commercial basket size, commercial portafilter, and all around great machine comes with a plastic tamper:

The email came by way of the Rancilio VP of Sales.

I learned that the plastic tamper is not an ideal solution for most; however, Rancilio goes on to state that they studied that the tamper can be a very personal tool and there are many choices for consumers. Many upgrade, again according to Rancilio, to the tampers that are $30 to $50. The email stated that the company "would not want to add a $20 tamper and still have consumers not be happy with it" (the tamper).

Furthermore, the email states that the commercial machines (price figures stated as $2000 up to $12,000) come with plastic tampers too - then the customer decides what type of tamping he/she will be doing.

Rancilio states that cost is a factor that needs to be considered for the machine. Everything added will eventually have a cost effect in the marketplace. The company tries to stay competitive while producing the best quality machine as possible. The email goes on with the claim of absorbing some costs such as the portafilter that changed to the commercial one while sustaining the current price.

When it comes to tamping, the following was stated:

Another thing is the global marketplace. In parts of Europe, the hand tamper is not even used - even in the cafe environment. The tamper on the grinder is used to flatten out the grinds not tamping, as we know it here. The added cost would just be a negative there.

Finally, the email ends with facts that Rancilio is primarily a commercial machine manufacturer and as such, that is their focus. They state that the fact they are a commercial manufacturer as the reason most love the Silvia and Rocky; it has a unique commercial feel to it. Rancilio says that right now, they are dealing with the issue of production in keeping up with world demand. However, the VP of Sales did say that he would bring up my concerns at the next home-line product meeting in Italy.

There is folks. The reason for the plastic tamper. (grin)

Paisley

**It is important to note that the person did thank me for my patronage and went to say he was glad I was happy with my purchase. I wrote the email with the utmost tact and diplomacy; however, I did include the fact I have six years of college in accounting and business in addition to handling the affairs of multiple contractors companies including my husband's company for many years. I have a close acquaintance with the bottomline and profit margins.

[kaioslider]

All very good points by Rancilio. My new Quick Mill came with an all-in-one tamper/7 gram scoop, I thought it pretty funny

Tampers are very personal, just look at all the post with a half a dozen tampers. I have three, a solid hunk of SS I got with my Silvia purchase from Sweet Maria's, my Espro tamper, and to round out my collection, a convex RB.

And they did add the commercial PF to the Silvia, that is a plus. They also don't supply a steam pitcher. I suppose that at the very least, if you bought the Silvia or any espresso machine for the first time, and did not plan on having the tamper, having the plastic one is better than nothing

[paisley]

Actually, not including a frothing pitcher is good business sense because as an espresso machine, it is conceivable that not everyone ordering a Silvia will want froth in their drinks. However, a tamper is a necessity. I would expect a plastic tamper out of Mr. Coffee but not Rancilio. Besides, the company manufactures stainless steel machines. To be sure they have enough scrap metal around to form tampers. I equal it to purchasing a drill without a chuck, a toothbrush without bristles, a dryer without a lint filter, etc...

I have spent the last few months scouring the internet for forums, reviews, how-to guides, and even blogs scoping out information regarding Silvia and other espresso equipment. Other than the automatic Capresso machines with built-in tamper, every machine tidbit of information I read over these months included tamping as a requirement. These things were written by people from all parts of the globe. Forums, especially forums, have people from all over the world. The number one question regarding tamping is how much pressure. The infamous magic number is 30lbs of pressure. If this is the case then it stands to reason that a quality tamper is the proverbial drill chuck, toothbrush bristles, and dryer's lint filter.

The one single common denominator among tampers whether the brand is Espro, RSVP (like mine), Deluxe, Thor, Barber, etc... is the fact that all are heavy with substance. In addition, each tamper brand comes with size dimensions or if the dimensions are not in the listing, the make and model of the machine is so when you purchase it, you are getting the correct size tamper for the filter basket size. The plastic tamper that comes with the Silvia is at least one size too small if not more.

For me, it isn't so much a beanie, no pun intended, as much as it is a necessity. If we were building a machine like we do computers from the base or frame up, I could understand it but this machine comes fully intact. The Rocky includes a bean hopper. The Rocky doserless even includes a metal bar to hold the portafilter. What makes the tamper on the Silvia any different? Could you imagine the Rocky doserless having a plastic bar to hold the portafilter?

Please forgive the rant but while I do not have a head for math (outside of accounting), I do have a head for logic and sending a plastic tamper that is at least a size too small if not more with a machine that retails for $500 is simply NOT logical. According to the email I received, this is standard for Rancilio machines costing upwards of $12,000! If I put that much money into a machine it better by gracious come with something besides a plastic, overly small tamper. I can only hope if a company spends $12,000 for a machine that they have the courtesy of offering something with the machine comparable to the price. Heck, when we bought our house many years ago, the seller did go in with us to split the closing costs. This is a prime example of a common courtesy. It's logical. When I sold my rental property a few years ago, I did the same for the buyer.

I didn't mean to rant about it but something doesn't sit well with me regarding that plastic tamper particularly when taking into account that a tamper, according to all my research, is a neccesary tool when using an espresso machine.

Warmest regards,

Paisley

[cannonfodder]

Tamper! I thought that was a plastic dumbbell for infants, or maybe a chew toy for the dog. Maybe a really big, and odd shaped fishing bobber... I know, it is to show everyone what an improper tamper to basket fit looks like. That way you know when you get one sized correctly, because it will not look like that.

It appears just about everyone ships those things with their machines, Elektra, Isomac, Gagga, KitchenAid, Rancilio etc...

On a side note, it is nice to see that they responded with a professional and courteous email. Too many companies just ignore their customers; good consumer support is a rare find.

[barry]

Tamper! I thought that was a plastic dumbbell for infants, or maybe a chew toy for the dog. Maybe a really big, and odd shaped fishing bobber... I know, it is to show everyone what an improper tamper to basket fit looks like. That way you know when you get one sized correctly, because it will not look like that.

I want you to know that the plastic tamper we got with our brasilia 18 years ago was the perfect size for seating the wheel bearing races on my MGB (inner and outer).

[HB]

Please forgive the rant but while I do not have a head for math (outside of accounting), I do have a head for logic and sending a plastic tamper that is at least a size too small if not more with a machine that retails for $500 is simply NOT logical. According to the email I received, this is standard for Rancilio machines costing upwards of $12,000!

I chalk this up to the same decision that accounts for the nearly useless "demo" batteries that come with some electronics. Enough for the merchant to demonstrate the product, maybe enough for the consumer to use it for a short period, that's it.

The only point I disagree with Rancilio is their decision to include any tamper. Dropping a quality tamper into the box when it may well go unused for a number of reasons (owner has one already, poor ergonomic fit, chooses to use the grinder tamper "appendage", etc.) is wasteful. Sending a quality tamper along with a $12,000 machine makes even less practical sense. It's almost certain (a) the buyer has one already or (b) will want to choose one precisely to their liking. I own more than a half-dozen tampers; if I showed them to a dozen baristas, I bet one would be picked as somebodies favorite, owing to personal preference, hand geometry, past experience with similar tampers, etc.

I want you to know that the plastic tamper we got with our brasilia 18 years ago was the perfect size for seating the wheel bearing races on my MGB (inner and outer).

When I was evaluating the S1 (53mm), I sanded down a 56mm plastic tamper. It fit pretty well actually. Who says they're useless? They're just misunderstood.

[IronBarista]

At least make the cheap tamper fit better. All they have to do is make a bigger mold.

[HB]

That reminds me! Last year at the SCAA, I met the designer of the Macap auto-tamper and asked him why the standard piston is 56.5mm and not the more common 58mm. He claimed that a tight edge fit was unnecessary, i.e., if the compression was across the full width of the basket's hole pattern, it's good enough. My comment: "I've never tried it, but I bet it will channel like crazy if you don't tamp several times (NSEW)." He disagreed and told me to try it with his auto-tamper, which tamps at a perfectly level 40 pounds.

I observed a similar lack of concern for edge compression during my travels in Europe. While we fuss over snug fitting pistons or tamp several times to compensate, I saw plenty of "mashing the center" with no thought to the grinds rising messily up the sides. In the end, I neglected to take him up on his challenge. He'll probably be back at the SCAA manning their booth. Though personally I expect it would be a waste of fine coffee, I should give it a try, if only on the slim chance he remembers our discussion...


Standard piston is 56.5mm

[Psyd]

Besides, the company manufactures stainless steel machines. To be sure they have enough scrap metal around to form tampers. I equal it to purchasing a drill without a chuck, a toothbrush without bristles, a dryer without a lint filter, etc...

And they equate it to bathing in public with a top. In the US, you'd get arrested in most places if you don't have a top, in the Med, you'd not get a second look. Besides, it's a far cry from having scrap stainless lying around to making a decent tamper. If it weren't, I'd be making tampers and selling them here.

For me, it isn't so much a beanie, no pun intended, as much as it is a necessity. If we were building a machine like we do computers from the base or frame up, I could understand it but this machine comes fully intact.

Yahbut, if you *do* get a packaged computer, the serial ball mouse that comes with it usually gets replaced with a laser driven optical wireless mouse, or maybe trackball.

I didn't mean to rant about it but something doesn't sit well with me regarding that plastic tamper particularly when taking into account that a tamper, according to all my research, is a necessary tool when using an espresso machine.

Look outside your country. Espresso is fairly new to the US, yet, here we are, stating that a tamper is a necessity just because we want one. Having travelled quite a bit, I'm still startled at how much US citizens are out of synch with the rest of the world, and how nationalist we are about it. Simple things like, the most recognised logo world wide? Manchester United. A soccer team. A British soccer team. Most Americans have never heard of them. Ask Americans what they thing the most followed sport worldwide is, and do you think they'd come up with Formula One auto racing? I'd be amazed if one out of ten people could even name one F1 driver. (That might change soon, now that there is an American driving!)
Think about it. If they put in a 20 Euro, stainless steel, precision tamper, three quarters of their customer base would be complaining about the extra E20 they had to shell out for this useless piece of kit that they'll never use. The plasti-crap tamper is a nod to their American consumers so that the machine can be used right out of the box by those that don't own a tamper, and those that already own a tamper don't get charged for a decent one that they don't want.
If this was an American company with an American market base, I'd think about agreeing with you. An Italian company with an international market base, it's nice thing that they included even the plastic one.
Besides, it's perfect for my steamtoy's travelling kit!

[barry]

Ask Americans what they thing the most followed sport worldwide is, and do you think they'd come up with Formula One auto racing? I'd be amazed if one out of ten people could even name one F1 driver.

Schoomie, michael & ralf.

Montoya! (he should have stayed in CART/IndyCar, and the Colombian Coffee Federation should be a sponsor)

Fisichella, Barrichello, Coulthard, Villeneuve, and the rest of the gang.

greg would be cross if i left out: KIMI!



--barry "2005 non-event"

looking forward to 2006 USGP & 2nd Annual Espresso Engineering Symposium, Indy, IN -- July 1 & 2, 2006
Lot 1-A, probably

[Psyd]

Schoomie, michael & ralf.

looking forward to 2006 USGP & 2nd Annual Espresso Engineering Symposium, Indy, IN -- July 1 & 2, 2006
Lot 1-A, probably

So, one out of, what 'ave we got 'ere, coupla hundred a day at least? Point.
Anyhoo, its good that you named the most important one first. So, Indy and this Symposium are simultaneous? I haven't heard about the symposium, what is it and where? I might just have to make another pilgrimage to Indy this year!

[barry]

So, Indy and this Symposium are simultaneous? I haven't heard about the symposium, what is it and where? I might just have to make another pilgrimage to Indy this year!

yeah, it's usually held in between my tent and greg scace's camper, in lot 1A, with spontaneous unmoderated discussion groups occurring around the infield during qualification runs.


--barry "business trip, donchaknow"

[Psyd]

yeah, it's usually held in between my tent and greg scace's camper, in lot 1A, with spontaneous unmoderated discussion groups occurring around the infield during qualification runs.


--barry "business trip, donchaknow"

Ehm, what kind of equipment is to be found at this 'symposium'? You guys have a 110V hookup? Whats the, uhm... entry fee?

[barry]

last year the only coffee was harrar made on a stovetop vac pot. quite yummy.

who knows what will show up this year. vac pot minimum, but y'never know what else.

[cannonfodder]

Interesting, the speedway is only a little over an hour from my house, or closer if you drive fast. Maybe I will drive out if it is a nice weekend to say hi.

Of course I could also sneak the generator into my truck. Maybe my smoker and a few racks of baby backs and brisket. Six hours of Oak and Hickory slow cooking makes them very yummy. I make the best BBQ sauce you will ever consume, 2 years in development before I settled on a final recipe. MMMM...BBQ.....

[happytamper]

Should the tamper be a snug fit? if not how much smaller should it be?

[cannonfodder]

I believe the common practice is snug but not tight. I would guess about 1/32 gap at the top of the basket. Keep in mind that while you can have a tamper turned for an exact fit, the next basket you purchase could be a fraction larger/smaller. These are stamped out using a die so there is some variance from stamping to stamping. Your custom turned tamper may now be too large for the new basket. A tapered or straight walled basket makes a difference too. The sides taper in so a little gap at the top will be a perfect fit at tamping depth.

Most folks just keep with the 'standard' sizes. If you have a 58mm machine, get a 58mm tamper and you should be good. I have two 58mm machines and one 51mm lever, never had a problem. If I were a pro in competition, then I may go for the custom turned just for the extra margin.

[luca]

... yeah ... unconvincing reasoning ... they could get a nice, solid plastic tamper made by the same guys La Marzocco used for a few cents more if they wanted to. I bet that there are heaps of people who buy a Silvia WITHOUT checking all of these zany webpages and buying a decent tamper - and these people are the least likely to do the increased cleaning necessary from the loose grounds at the edge of the portafilter.

[kahvedelisi]

IMO a proper tamper should be added by the grinder company not by the espresso machine company. Instead almost all grinder producers add this silly protruding --offsize-- useless thing to their products.

Another approach to this --> tampers, pitchers, tamping matts and stands, knockboxes are accessories and they should be sold separately (I strongly believe that's the fact Rancilio company couldn't openly confess in their response)

[another_jim]

Back on alt.coffee, in the dim prehistory of forums, there were five things every right thinking wannabee coffee expert had to condemn. We all did three or four posts a year making fun of thermoblocks, crema enhancers, turbo-frothers, preground coffee and/or whirly blade grinders, and especially the ridiculous penchant of even the top Italian espresso machine companies to throw in a silly 55 - 56mm black plastic tamper with their machines.

Oh well, four out of five ain't bad.