Rancilio Silvia trips GFCI

[MrSpiffy]

It's unfortunate that my very first post on here happens to be one asking for help... but that's life, I guess. In any case, I'm happy to join the community here at H-B!

My wife and I recently took the plunge into the espresso world and purchased a used Rancilio Silvia on eBay. So far the seller has been very friendly about splitting the cost to fix our issue, but I'm hoping it's a simple problem before I just go and splurge on replacement parts.

The seller claims that the machine operated just fine the day before he shipped it out to me. However, we cannot get the machine to run at all. As soon as we flip the power switch, it trips the GFCI on our kitchen outlet. In fact, it does this on three separate GFCI's, so we know it isn't just the outlet. But now comes the fun part of figuring out why it's tripping the outlet.

After some searching, I discovered that it could be due to a failing heating element that's shorting to the boiler. So, I decided to test this theory by purchasing a multimeter, just in case that isn't it. I don't want to blow $100+ on a new boiler before knowing the true problem. If the heating element is shorting to the boiler, the resistance should read 0, but it didn't. It read infinite resistance from both terminals of the heating coil to the boiler shell. The heating element also reads roughly 16 ohms across both terminals. So, apparently a bad boiler/heating element isn't the problem.

I also tested resistance for the thermostats, which also seemed fine, reading either 0 resistance or approx. 16 ohms when crossing the heating element. The thermostat reset switch also showed similar readings. So, I'm pretty sure I can rule those out.

I have no clue where to go from here... Any help would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: One other thing... it wouldn't be because I need to prime the machine, is it..?

Thanks!

Regards,
Eric

[boublanc]

Hello Eric.
It sound like you have the right approach.
There is definitely a short in the electrical system/wiring...One thing I'd try next would be to unplugged the boiler and try to power Silvia up. If it is the element, I would guess it wouldn't trip the GFCI. If it still trip, try unplugging a different connector. Work your way around the electrical wiring this way till it works. then you'll know where or which part is shorting out. Look for dried out insulator on wires, anything touching or rubbing on metal...
Hope this help, I am sure you'll get more advice from fellow member with better understanding and experience of electrical wiring...
good luck
Marcelin

[Randy G.]

It takes a VERY small fault in the device to trip the GFCI. The heating element does not have to be bad to trip it- just leaking current a tiny amount. To test it, disconnect the two heating element wires. If it doesn't trip now, then you could wire a lamp in place of the heating element to put a load on that circuit.

All of the above assumes you know what you are doing around electricity and, if you don't, your wife has already planned your replacement..

[MrSpiffy]

Haha... Yeah, I don't really want to mess around with this thing too much. I did open things up, just to see the condition of the boiler. And I have to say... I'm not terribly excited. I don't know if this guy ever flushed the machine or cleaned anything other than the portafilter. Take a look for yourselves...



In any case, I still can't figure out what's tripping the GFCI. I found that if I unplug one side of the heating element, the GFCI still trips. (That's the right side of the heating element (brown wire), when you're looking at it from the front of the machine.) If I unplug the other side (black wire), the GFCI doesn't trip. Assuming the black wire is the "hot" wire, then the heating element must be at fault, here. For reference, here's the wiring:

[chuckl]

sad to say, the inside of your boiler looks a lot like mine did when i burned up the heating element. I left it on too long and I think the boiler must have run dry. I did replace it (you have to replace the whole boiler) and it's running fine now, minus $180 for a new boiler and $50 to have it replaced. I'm a lot more careful about turning it off when i'm not actively using it

[eastpresso]

Dear first-poster looking for advice:

As Randy was kind enough to point out - we assume you know what you are doing. If not - do all of us a favor and return the machine or contact one of the site's sponsors for a repair before you injure yourself or others.

Thanks.

EDIT: One other thing... it wouldn't be because I need to prime the machine, is it..?

The picture of your boiler looks completely dry?? Not sure whether this will solve your problem but you must prime the boiler manually because the Silvia does not have an autofill. You do this via running a shot or running the hot water tap. Not doing so will trip your hi-limit stat which is located on the front left of your machine or fry your element if it doesn't. A picture of a hi-limit stat can be found here:

http://www.chriscoffee.com/faq#11

Those contacts to the element should be insulated!? You can check the wiring here:

http://www.murphyslawonline.com/silvia.html

[MrSpiffy]

But to prime the machine, I still need to turn it on, correct? That would let me run the pump and push water into the boiler (and out the portafilter or steam wand).

And for the contacts, they were extremely brittle when I tried to remove them, and the plastic just disintegrated when I pulled on them. (Note that some of the other contacts are also yellowed and brittle in the pic above.)

I'm going to try two courses of action, at this point: file a claim with UPS, as the seller says that it worked fine before shipping it, or (if that doesn't work) I'll send it back to the seller for a refund.

If neither works, I may file through PayPal for a dispute, or just repair the machine myself. It was easy enough to remove the boiler top to check the heating element. I'm pretty sure I can handle replacing it.