Questions - Silvia/Rocky Combo issues

[paisley]

Hi Everyone:

I hoped to get everything under this one heading to save time and space on the boards. It is my hope this one made it into the correct forum for a change. My first one did not. Thank you Dan for moving it to the correct place. (grin) You are terrific.

First and foremost, I received the Silvia with Rocky combo on Monday. As everyone can imagine, I felt like a child at Christmas with a toy I begged and pleaded for all year long. The Silvia is actually much heavier than expected but it performs wonderfully if I can work out a few kinks. I did discover that frothing is so much easier using the Silvia versus the 18+ year-old Mr. Coffee espresso machine; however, it will take some time to learn everything well.

Quick question regarding beans:
I have two different types of beans, actually three but I don't include the crappy 8 O'Clock beans real beans. They came from the grocer for me to practice grind and tamping without wasting my good beans. I have a 2.2lb bag of Machristay (caffeinated) and a 12-ounce bag of Peru Oraganic Chanchamayo. Due to the need to "rest" I stopped into the cafe near me to pick up a bag of the house decaf. These already did the resting because it came from the cafe's stock. The young girl working the evening shift knows nothing of resting periods other than it is a requirement but she could tell me little else as she was new. Normally, I deal directly with the owner and morning manager.

How long should these beans rest before I can use them?

I did grind and brew some of the Machristay but they taste terribly strong. I am assuming they will be better in a few days. How about the rest time on the Peru beans? The Peru beans roasted today or possibly yesterday but since they came UPS and the roaster is only a little more than an hour away it could possibly been today. Tomorrow morning I plan to use the cafe beans and hope to achieve the same results or better (am I cocky or what?) than the cafe. (grin)

Grinding issues:
I use the Rancilio Rocky, as I mentioned above. It is currently at the setting of 11. Is this a fairly decent setting for espresso for the Silvia? It feels powdery. I cannot get the pour to come out well; however, at least now I know the true meaning of crema because I get a lot of it when comparing to the Mr.C. It is difficult to acclimate to turning the brew switch off. The MrC machine stopped when the water ran through. I try pulling to 23 seconds. It comes into the shot glasses and the little espresso cups well. I find that I make less of a mess using the shot glasses.

When I start the pull, it sounds as if I have air in the PF because I am noticing some bubbling in the slot when it comes through the duel PF slots underneath. In addition, my pucks are all wet. Some are better than others but for the most part it runs from sludgy to a bit of a pool on top of the spent grounds. Is this due to not tamping hard enough?

Tamping issues:
I did attempt to use the bathroom scales but I ran into a problem. Not long ago, I received a set of talking scales. If you have read my previous posts you already know that I am legally blind with some light perception.* The talking scales keeps E-ing out on me. I had a previous set that I could only see if I brought my eyes within less than an inch of the large LCD display but it E's out on me too whenever I place it on my countertop. It is important to note that I am still using the plastic tamper that came with the Silvia. The new tamper will not arrive until probably Monday. I ordered a RSVP Tamper. Will I notice improvement with this tamper? I believe it is a flat tamper versus the convex shape of the plastic one. Will that make too much of a difference?

At first I felt as if I was overfilling the PF because I could barely get the thing into the grouphead. I dropped the grinds to a lower amount and still continue to use the 'nickel technique' an extremely sweet lady at Chris' Coffee told me about. It works well but now I am wondering if perhaps I am using too few grinds. It is much easier to pull using the double-shot basket than the single-shot one. Is this normal?

Part of my concern is proper tamp weight. I am hoping to tamp tomorrow from my kitchen table. I only weigh 130lbs and with the counter being above waist height, I wonder if that might be hindering my tamping abilities. Tomorrow I will send my oldest daughter to the dollar store to pick up a cheap set of bathroom scales specifically for coffee use. Once I adjust to the tamp feel, I can give them to her to put away in her hope chest since she plans to leave home sometime after her first year or second year of college. She is a senior in high school who will graduate in June of this year with college starting in the fall. She will commute to school at first until finding an apartment alone or sharing with roomies. If she can find an old dial-style scale perhaps that will aid me in my tamping abilities.

Is the Stockfelth method of tamping the one where you tamp north, south, east, and west before a final central tamp and turn? If so, does this method work better than simply tamping straight down with a twist? Remember that I have the doserless Rocky because I want to use it to grind beans later for a drip pot and a French press for my husband. The doserless was the best choice, according to my research, for multiple grinds. I wonder if I should grind directly into a container then measure with a specific coffee spoon versus grinding directly into the PF. Could my tamping issues be partially responsible for the puck sticking to the underside of the grouphead on occasion? Yes, it happened a few times already. I went to touch the inside of the PF only to find it missing the puck. Now does anyone want to talk about being deathly afraid of ruining their first "real" espresso machine? I was petrified. I thought I broke the thing and somehow allowed the machine to suck the puck into the machine. I kept wondering how the h*ll I was going to get all those grinds out until I placed my fingers lightly against the underside of the grouphead to find it hanging on for dear life. (bigger grin)

My grinding technique is as follows:
Grind beans directly into the PF until it is a mound. This is a bit difficult considering the grinds pile versus fill. I remove the PF when I feel it is piling high enough. I brush the grinds north, south, east, and west. Afterward, I feel for the height and then tamp with that. Should I knock the tamp first and then tamp? Could that be where the bubbling through the slots underneath the PF are coming from during the brew?

I read everything I can get my hands on regarding grinding, brewing, and frothing but nothing seems to spell it out for me for some reason. In the end, I am afraid I will have to visit the cafe to learn from the ladies there but there is a hindrance to that situation. I use the sense of touch and taste most often. I am quite certain nobody will want my fingers in the PF when feeling for the correct grind, height, and spent puck. Besides, the ladies are quite busy a large part of the time because they receive most if not all of the traffic from the courthouse in town. Since the neighboring town board recently closed their courthouse, the main courthouse will become more busy and crowded thus bringing further business to the doors of the cafe.

Frothing Issues:
For the most part, I am doing quite well with frothing considering it so much easier with the Silvia than it was with MrC. I still have issues but I hope to correct them with time. My biggest concern is how far do I turn the steam valve button. Does anyone know? Also, when frothing, Wand placement is driving me nuts. I can place the wand where I hear loud slurping which creates huge bubbles. I can place it where it slops everything out of the pitcher. I can also place it where I hear nearly nothing but slight hissing. I still receive foam but not the microfoam I believe I should be receiving. Where is the middle ground?

Thermometers are lost on me unless I can find one that talks. The wonderful woman at Chris' gave me a great tip on feeling for temperature with my fingers since my sense of touch is extremely strong. Considering the massive steam, I am wondering if I should keep the wand at the hissing level until the pitcher is warm to the touch but not too hot and then dunk it completely for the swirling motion until it becomes too hot to touch but not blistering before turning off the knob. Any ideas on this one folks?

Question in the form of a request:
Can anyone with a Silvia record and audio of the sound of frothing at the sweet spot to give me an idea if I am hearing it correctly? The videos help but too much emphasis is on the visual clues versus audible clues. Please do not think me anal for wishing for audible clues. I learn by sound, touch, and taste. So far, the taste has yet to reach nirvana. (grin) My espresso shots and froth may never hit nirvana level but it doesn't prevent me from at least working toward the goal.

Today I ordered the Rancilio instructional CD with hopes the CD offers more audible clues. If anyone else has this CD, can you give some feedback on its worth? The CD or rather DVD I believe it is, was only $15 from Wholelattelove.com including shipping. If it will play on the television screen or the large 21-inch monitor at my desktop there is a huge chance I will actually be able to visually see it. Maybe that will help in helping me with technique.

Last two questions - I promise:
Can I backwash with the Silvia using Cafiza? According to my reading on the internet, I find the answer is yes. However, I did find a few places that says no. Wholelattelove.com's salesperson I called said one could NOT use Cafiza to backwash. Some say yes while others say no. I want to hear it from the pros. Can my Silvia use the backwash cycle with Cafiza to clean it out safely? I assume the answer is yes because there is a backwash disk specifically for the machine according to my shopping experiences.

Here is the last question. I realize it will take me some time to learn the basics. However, once I have more experience under my belt and stop sticking pucks to the grouphead or having watery pucks or all the other things that went wrong, would it serve any benefits to me to later purchase a naked portafilter? It will be sometime before I can afford one but I wonder if it is worth the effort. I will leave opinions in the hands of those with more experience than myself.

Please know how much I will appreciate any assistance on the matters listed above. It is important for you to know that I have gone through a plethora of websites in search of answers and while many did provide some, most left me with more questions than answers. I felt it best to ask them here where I feel among friends. This is a major undertaking for me. It is difficult enough for a person with complete sight but for someone with little sight to speak of, it can feel like an daunting task. However, I am quite certain if I bring effort, determination, and hope into the equation I will succeed. Afterall, many naysayers swore I would never learn to build a computer too. They were wrong. Not only did I learn to build computers, I went on to set up a home network, teach others to network, and I continue repairing computers in my home and for others to this day.

Warmest regards to all,

Paisley
PS: Maybe I need to start the internet's first blog on espresso making by a blind woman. (grin) I am sure it would be interesting. I have the writing experience. I have the internet-software experience. Now I am learning the espresso experience. Hmmm. I sounds like a great idea. What do you think?

*Blindness: I meet the United States social security office's definition of blindness. It states that any person with 20 degrees or less of visual field in the better eye or anyone with 20/100 vision in the better eye meets the criteria for blindness under the provisions set by the Department of Social Security. My visual fields are somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 to 6 degrees in both eyes. My central vision is so poor I have never seen an eye chart without corrective lenses (glasses or contacts). In addition, I haven't seen the eye chart even with corrective lenses in about 15 years. I have retinitis pigmentosa, a hereditary eye disease that causes peripheral vision loss. This condition has complications from extraordinarily small optic nerves and systemic lupus (an autoimmune disease).

[HB]

How long should these beans rest before I can use them?

If they were indeed freshly roasted, 3-4 days post-roast is a good starting point. Some blends (notably Caffe Fresco's) have longer rest periods of about 5-7 days.

I use the Rancilio Rocky, as I mentioned above. It is currently at the setting of 11. Is this a fairly decent setting for espresso for the Silvia? It feels powdery.

If I remember correctly, a good starting espresso range for Rocky is about 5-7 clicks above the zero point (where the burrs touch). You can confirm the zero point by first running the grinder empty, then turning it off and rotating the collar until the burrs touch (again, the grinder does not need to be running and the chamber must be empty). Grind a sample and pinch it between your fingers. It should feel much coarser than flour, but less coarse than salt. The grinds should stick together slightly; if the beans are fresh and the grinds don't adhere together, it's too coarse. If the grinds hold a fingerprint impression, it's too fine. Bean that have high moisture content will require a couple notches coarser, drier beans are perhaps a notch finer.

In addition, my pucks are all wet. Some are better than others but for the most part it runs from sludgy to a bit of a pool on top of the spent grounds. Is this due to not tamping hard enough?

I don't put a lot of stock in "puckology". Wet sludgy pucks usually mean not enough grounds.

I ordered a RSVP Tamper. Will I notice improvement with this tamper? I believe it is a flat tamper versus the convex shape of the plastic one. Will that make too much of a difference?

I don't know that tamper, but there is the espro and Clicker Tamp, which offer tactile / auditory clues when the correct pressure is obtained. That said, consistency is more important than precision. Whether you tamp 30 or 50 pounds doesn't matter as long as you don't tamp 30 pounds one time and 50 the next.

It is much easier to pull using the double-shot basket than the single-shot one. Is this normal?

I would use the single basket for another purpose, such as a nice coin dish.

Is the Stockfelth method of tamping the one where you tamp north, south, east, and west before a final central tamp and turn? If so, does this method work better than simply tamping straight down with a twist?

The Stockfleth's move is a distribution technique, not a tamping technique. An easier technique and one that doesn't require as much visual acuity would be the "Chicago Chop". It's similar to how one properly measures flour... dose your portafilter lightly, chop-chop-chop across with a knife edge, gently tap the portafilter twice against the rest to settle the grounds, dose to overflowing, light chop-chop-chop again, level off the top.

Considering the massive steam, I am wondering if I should keep the wand at the hissing level until the pitcher is warm to the touch but not too hot and then dunk it completely for the swirling motion until it becomes too hot to touch but not blistering before turning off the knob. Any ideas on this one folks?

Massive is relative... as a general rule, inject air (stretch) until the pitcher sides are just warm, swirl (texturize) until the sides are uncomfortably hot.

Can anyone with a Silvia record and audio of the sound of frothing at the sweet spot to give me an idea if I am hearing it correctly?

Have you listened to WholeLatteLove's video on frothing? It's not great audio, but pretty good.

Can my Silvia use the backwash cycle with Cafiza to clean it out safely?

Despite the manufacturer's warnings, I did it without issue for years.

However, once I have more experience under my belt and stop sticking pucks to the grouphead or having watery pucks or all the other things that went wrong, would it serve any benefits to me to later purchase a naked portafilter?

Buying a bottomless portafilter and reading Perfecting the Naked Extraction (especially the Troubleshooting Checklist) is my #1 recommendation.

Whew! That's a lot of questions!

[paisley]

Dan:

You would make an excellent instructor for the blind barista! The audible words you use are ones that help me understand what is going on and what I need to change particularly the aspect of differences in grind using salt and flour. Whew, I love it. Now I have a real working idea of where to start.

The tamper I ordered is here: http://zaccardis.com/rsvp-espresso-tamper-58.html. I hope it is a decent tamper at least until I can get a new one. If I can play my cards right, I hope to order an Espro tamper sometime next month. I hope the one I bought will do well enough for now.

An easier technique and one that doesn't require as much visual acuity would be the "Chicago Chop".

I actually used this technique at my first job making biscuits for the morning rush at Wendy's a long long long time ago. I don't know why I didn't think of using it on coffee. Thanks again.

Have you listened to WholeLatteLove's video on frothing? It's not great audio, but pretty good.

If the man talking on that video would shut up for more than one-half of a second, I could actually hear the frothing sound but he never shuts up. I almost wish it would put his mic at the pitcher instead of his mouth. (grin) It is quite annoying. I spent six years as a medical transcriptionist so I know bad when I hear it. LOL!

Despite the manufacturer's warnings, I did it without issue for years.

Great. I hoped it was safe despite the conflicting information. Burnt coffee grinds on the group head did concern me particularly with my pucks sticking to it. I run a quick shot of water through the GH to ensure it is clean after each pull. As soon as I can backwash I will feel better. The oils seem to stick tight if I don't clean them up. There's nothing worse than a gunky and dirty machine.

Buying a bottomless portafilter and reading Perfecting the Naked Extraction (especially the Troubleshooting Checklist) is my #1 recommendation.

I will add that to my list of wants for later retrieval. I figured it might help but with my sight issues, I wasn't sure. Given enough light and if I have a 'good eye day' it should be enough to help me ensure I am doing everything correctly.

Whew! That's a lot of questions!

Forgive me. I promise to break my other questions into various posts next time. These seemed so interconnected that I put them together but broke them into sections. Next time, I promise to do better.

With regards to the "resting" period on fresh-roasted beans, I am assuming this is probably why the beans tasted so horribly strong. I will wait out the beans and try them again in a few days to see if the taste rounds out as I am certain they will.

Please know that I appreciate all your assistance and your expertise. It is nice to find someone willing to help newbies time and time again. I am quite certain you receive questions such as these all the time. I cannot put into words my appreciation at receiving your help and most especially receiving in a way that I can relate given my sight issues.

When my shots improve, I'll have my daughter take a digital picture and help me upload it to the forums so you can see the progress for yourself. Thanks to your tutelage and the help from everyone here at home-barista.com, I'm sure I'm on my way to coffee nirvana.

Warmest regards,

Paisley

[paisley]

Dan:

I certainly hope you check here in the near future despite my novel-length question session in this post earlier but I wanted to tell you that this morning I made the absolute best drink yet! Thanks for the tips and tricks to tamping and grinding. It isn't perfect but it is getting there. At least this one was completely and totally drinkable!

The crema may be a bit too thick, which I think the next round I will stop at 20 seconds versus 25 to taste the difference but at least the tamp is much better this time making it nowhere near as bitter. Using rested beans helped tremendously. I can't begin to thank you.

BTW, the barista/employee at the cafe told me they use a knife to hold back the foam when pouring if they overfoam the top. I tried it this morning when I overdid the frothing. It worked perfectly. The milk was sweeter and had more texture than anything I produced so far. I had little foam on top but at least the textured milk wound up in my cup instead of a glop of foam. I could almost swear I had enough texture to see a bit of a design when I poured the milk in. The taste was creamy, almost like rich silk, not dry or tasteless. Could I finally be getting closer to my shot of nirvana? (grin)

Warmest regards,

Paisley

[HB]

BTW, the barista/employee at the cafe told me they use a knife to hold back the foam when pouring if they overfoam the top. I tried it this morning when I overdid the frothing. It worked perfectly.

Their suggestion reminds me of the poll from last year: Do you free pour or spoon for espresso-based milk drinks?

Purists will likely consider any implement "cheating," though I have seen spatulas a few times in competition. I feel it adds unnecessary two-handed complexity to my morning. But if time is short and the foam is too foamy, I'll do a quick top layer pouroff, followed by a few thunk and swirls. That banishes the big a** bubbles to the sink, restores the shiny chrome finish, and keeps my free pourer integrity intact.

[Robert]

Dear Paisely,

I think a blind womens photography website would be much more interesting! (smile). I see these ideas have already been covered. However here's a source and price

Seriously though, I don't know if it's within your budget or not (you did buy a Silvia), but 1st-Line equipment does sale a tamper that is spring loaded and clicks at 30lbs of pressure. It's costly at $75.00 but just an idea.

Sincerely,

Robert

[barry]

Frothing Issues: For the most part, I am doing quite well with frothing considering it so much easier with the Silvia than it was with MrC. I still have issues but I hope to correct them with time. My biggest concern is how far do I turn the steam valve button. Does anyone know? Also, when frothing, Wand placement is driving me nuts. I can place the wand where I hear loud slurping which creates huge bubbles. I can place it where it slops everything out of the pitcher. I can also place it where I hear nearly nothing but slight hissing. I still receive foam but not the microfoam I believe I should be receiving. Where is the middle ground?

for what it is worth, i think successful frothing is intimately linked to the sound, so much so that i usually do at least one demonstration for trainees where i froth microfoam to correct temperature, texture, and volume with my eyes closed. you should be able to judge temperature by sound as well as touch. if your fingers are overly sensitive to heat, then concentrate on the sound. the pitch of the tone will drop as the temperature rises, and the key is learning where "just right" is.

[paisley]

the pitch of the tone will drop as the temperature rises

Wow. I didn't know that about the frothing. It probably has to do more with the fact I spent most of my life cooking in cast iron instead of stainless. (grin) I will start listening for the tone changes to see if I can find the sweet spot. The one thing that gives me comfort is the fact that my coffees are improving.

This morning's cup was amazing. Instead of grinding into the PF, I ground beans into a container. This way, I could grind, get a feel for the grind, and adjust if I felt it was necessary. I did something different with tamping though. Until this evening, I only had the plastic tamper that came with the Silvia. It is an aggravating little cuss because the tamper doesn't completely fill the filter disk. It leaves an edge that raises around pushing the grinds up high. I pressed these raised grounds back down into the basket and tamped again using the NSEW approach until it was all even before pulling the shot. It had to change something because I pulled the best shot yet. The shot took approximately 24 seconds according to the timer I use. The frothing had great texture and even a silky feel to it. This was the most creamy coffee I made yet. It had a sweetness to it too. Normally, I add a bit of whipped topping to coffees to increase the sweetness and break the strong and bitter. It wasn't necessary this time. Yippee!

Robert:
My daughter would have to take the photographs. I am not great with a camera at all anymore - behind or in front of one. (grin) The Espro tamper is something I do want to purchase in the future. It should come in handy for consistent tamps and make it easier on days when arthritis gets the better of my hands. The expense is a bit higher than I can afford right now. Maybe in the next month or two I can get one. I want a naked portafilter too but using it will be interesting. Good eye days are far and few between but given enough light, I may can make out the difference between the colors. If not, at least there is a high chance I can see enough to know if the tamp is even. Maybe I can figure out that one by sound too. Somehow or another, I am able to hear a partially open waterhose when dirt or a clump of grass is blocking the pipe. Don't ask me how I know because all I can think of is perhaps a pitch difference. We were watering the lawn a year or so ago when the pipe didn't sound right. I had my husband check it and sure enough a small ball of grass and straw had somehow entered the hose pipe. It wedged in such a way he had to get some needle nose pliers to remove it.

Thanks for all the advice and tips fellas. It sure helps. I hope you know how much. It's nice to enjoy a great cup of coffee at home without begging and pleading for a ride to a decent cafe when the closest one is over 10 miles away. Now it is only as far as my kitchen counter.

Warmest regards,
Paisley

[paisley]

Barry:

I did notice the pitch change when the milk temperature changes. I haven't found the sweet spot as far as timing yet but I can hear it. I made a cup last night before going to bed and then another this morning. Actually, I made two this morning because the first shot left me with another stuck puck but I didn't realize it until I removed the PF and a few grinds wound up in my cup first. DH was standing with me watching me make it. I hate that happened with him there because I so much wanted to impress him. He hates espresso and espresso-based. He prefers his drip coffee. To make a long story short, he headed to the convenience store up the street for a cup of drip coffee leaving me at home (he did ask if I wanted to go out with him today but I declined) with my espresso machine. He claims the beans are too dark roasted but then again he doesn't care for the taste of espresso either.

Maybe I should learn to make an Americano for him. I am thinking the added hot water may weaken the strength of the cup enough for him to drink it. He spent his life drinking drip coffee usually with the brand name of Folgers or Maxwell House on the label. I didn't. There in lies the rub.

Warmest regards,
Paisley