Putting Nuova Simonelli Oscar on a timer and loud pop/noise at turn on

[caeffe]

Hi all-

I just noticed that my electric bill has shot way up ever since I got the grouch (Oscar). I had been keeping it on 24/7 and was wondering

1. I'd like to use a timer - can I use any old timer for it? I'm asking this question as I noticed - Why does the Vivaldi need such an expensive special timer?

2. Has anyone done a kW-hr calculation for an Oscar? I'm curious to see what the power consumption is for 24 hrs. I can determine whether my higher electric bill is due to Oscar or possibly other appliances that I didn't know were on.

3. I now have it on in the mornings, pull 2-4 shots, turn it off, head to work. Once I get home I turn Oscar back on and leave it on till after dinner (approx 3-4 hrs). I noticed that when I initially turn it on, I get a loud pop - is this normal? Is it time for me to descale? I just did a boiler drain but didn't descale.

[cannonfodder]

The timer needed will be determined by the amperage draw of the machine. 15 amp timers are relatively common and inexpensive. Once you go over 15 amps, the price goes up fast.

The popping could be scale forming on the heating element. When my machine starts to pop and gurgle as the heating element cycles I open up the group to check the scale level. When was the last time you descaled and do you know how hard your water is?

[caeffe]

The popping could be scale forming on the heating element. When my machine starts to pop and gurgle as the heating element cycles I open up the group to check the scale level.

How do I open up the Oscar group? It's definitely not an e61 type.

When was the last time you descaled

I've never descaled since purchase (~sept/oct last year). As I mentioned, I've just recently flushed the boiler out via the drain plug. Since the oscar doesn't have a hot water wand I expected some dark looking mineraly water to come out - which did.

and do you know how hard your water is?

Nope. I need to do that but I suspect it is pretty hard based on the hard water deposits I see on my showerhead. I've been using refrigerator filtered water then filter that with Brita. I've never checked the resulting water hardness.

Sounds like regardless of the water hardness, based on the popping noise I need to descale sooner rather than later.

I guess the next question I have is how to descale a HX, specifically an Oscar. I've descaled a single boiler before (Estro Vapore) and I think I understand how to descale the HX boiler: flush, fill up boiler with descale soln, let it sit for some time, the flush x times with fresh water.

I'm curious how I do the HX portion. Do I just do 'HX' flush a couple of times through?

[kitt]

Hi, i'm pretty sure you can't run the oscar on a timer, as it has no vacuum breaker, just like the ellimatic model i had.When you turn it on each time, you're suppossed to open the steam valve till steam is produced, then close it.The more expensive HX machines have a vacuum breaker on the boiler to do this for you.If i forgot to open the steam valve on my ellimatic it made loud bubbling gurgling noises, which stopped as soon as i opened steam valve.It's one of the reasons oscar is so much cheaper than the competition - no vacuum breaker and no hot water tap.They're still great machines though.

[caeffe]

Hi, i'm pretty sure you can't run the oscar on a timer, as it has no vacuum breaker, just like the ellimatic model i had.When you turn it on each time, you're suppossed to open the steam valve till steam is produced, then close it.The more expensive HX machines have a vacuum breaker on the boiler to do this for you.If i forgot to open the steam valve on my ellimatic it made loud bubbling gurgling noises, which stopped as soon as i opened steam valve.It's one of the reasons oscar is so much cheaper than the competition - no vacuum breaker and no hot water tap.They're still great machines though.

I agree its a great machine!

Couldn't I still put it on a timer? The only issue being that I'd have to manually open the steam valve to remove the false pressure - hence I'd still have to wait some 10 minutes or so but I believe that would alleviate the power consumption.

[kitt]

Hi , i'm not 100% sure you can't.You're suppossed to have the steam valve open as it warms up, but i'm not sure if it's a safety or a practicality issue. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will reply, or you could try asking the vendor you bought it off.

[cannonfodder]

Afraid I can not help you with group disassembly. I have never worked on an Oscar. Many machines have cap to the group so you can get to the group filter screen. Scale will usually build up on that. You may want to read through Water, Scaling and Descaling with HX machines.

My tap water runs around 300ppm, while not hard as rocks, it is far from soft. I do a preventive maintenance descale once per year on my machines. If you have particularly soft water, you could go years between descaling.

The lack of a vacuum breaker makes timer operation a little less ideal. You can physically turn the machine on and off with a timer. But without that breaker, it will not come to full temperature without intervention. Depending on how quickly you want a morning shot, you could have the machine power up and partially heat, purge the false pressure. Then go about your morning routine returning later to a heated and ready machine.

Leaving the steam wand open as it heats does the same thing. It allows pressure to escape as the machine heats. I would not leave the steam valve open and try to turn it on with a timer.

[caeffe]

I've decided I will put it on a timer. It will at least cut my warm-up time some and also eliminate some power-consumption and save me some $ I can use for that eventually upgradeitis we all get afflicted with eventually

I sat and observed it's cycle. Essentially, I observed 15-20 seconds it is on for approx 4 minutes it is off.
So, my rough calculations tells me it is equivalent to having a 75-100 watt bulb on continuously. Don't know about you folks but it bugs me when a 75 watt light bulb is on for no reason.

As far as scale - I'm gonna have to descale. One of those things that i'll have to do. Hopefully I can't stop making the coffee/espresso long enough so I can descale the hx and boiler simultaneously.

I'll have to read the descale articles here but my initial thoughts are that since I will be draining the boiler and refillling it with descale soln (is this citric acid?: http://www.shop.partsguru.com/pro...1147&categoryId=62 ) that I won't have to worry about the issue of the boiler refilling with the descale soln while descaling the hx portion.

[danetrainer]

Caeffe,

(I PM'd you last week about my new Oscar) I have a Vacuum Breaker arriving from Chris Coffee shortly
that I ordered last week, along with a pump pressure gauge I plan to install on my Oscar...
The Vacuum Breaker is $11.75, and it is what you need to run your machine on a timer properly. I plan
to plumb it in at the junction of the steam line and the boiler...have no idea of the fittings yet until I have
the part in hand and take the steam tube out. Love the machine BTW...

[narc]

Caeffe, regarding your electric bill and having the machine on 24/7. Your net electric consumption would be the ~2.5kilowatts/24hr- minus the total amount of electricity used to start up from cold to operating temp. If you use the machine only once daily total electric would be less on a timer. But multiple daily reheats may not save any energy. Any other potential sources in your electrical use spike?

My electric fee is $0.10/kilowatt-hr. When I had an Isomac Tea on 24/7 the electric bill it reflected ~10% of my bill. Large % of the bill, but only ~$3/month increase. Shutting down the electronics instead of leaving on standby (computer, video, stereo....) can save more electricity than you waste on a 24/7 machine. Doing both ends up adding to a significant annual decrease in electrical use.

I checked our well water hardness by using Hatch test strips. Available many places. Purchased a set a while back from chriscoffee. If you buy a vacume breaker might as well add the strips. They are inexpensive. Simple to use. Give you a good ballpark number on your water hardness. Measurement is in grains of hardness. Not sure on the equivalent ppm. The Brita pitcher has its limits. You may need to add a rechargeable intake (pourover machine?) filter. They are reasonable in cost. Simple to recharge. Readly available.

[caeffe]

...........Your net electric consumption would be the ~2.5kilowatts/24hr- minus the total amount of electricity used to start up from cold to operating temp. If you use the machine only once daily total electric would be less on a timer. But multiple daily reheats may not save any energy. Any other potential sources in your electrical use spike?
..............Shutting down the electronics instead of leaving on standby (computer, video, stereo....) can save more electricity than you waste on a 24/7 machine. Doing both ends up adding to a significant annual decrease in electrical use.

I find that I mainly use it in the mornings. Sometimes, I'll use it at night but maybe 2-3 times a week only. At most I figure the machine needs to be on for ~ 2-3 hrs if I intend to use it mornings and early evenings. I may end up just using the europiccola for the mornings by bringing it to work - but that brings other logistical and 'parasitic' issues if you know what I mean....

I've been on the hunt for other 'parasitic' electric loads - computer, printer, plasma, cable/sat tv box, etc.... and am finding out ways to either put them on a strip with an on/off or a timer. As you say, the net result of all these parasitic loads can be significant to one's electric bill - or the new buzzword: carbon footprint

[caeffe]

Caeffe,

(I PM'd you last week about my new Oscar) I have a Vacuum Breaker arriving from Chris Coffee shortly
that I ordered last week, along with a pump pressure gauge I plan to install on my Oscar...
The Vacuum Breaker is $11.75, and it is what you need to run your machine on a timer properly. I plan
to plumb it in at the junction of the steam line and the boiler...have no idea of the fittings yet until I have
the part in hand and take the steam tube out. Love the machine BTW...

I thought about this ... I may go ahead and do this also but.....
I've observed that silver grouch only needs about another 5-10 minutes upon release of steam to turn off the heater. It's something I think I can live with.

Where do you plan to put the pressure gauge? If it's just a boiler gauge, i'm not sure it would be worth the trouble as you'll just notice the cycling of the pressure as the heater cycles. You'll need to provide some sort of access hole to get to the P-stat so you can adjust it if desired but IIRC, the utility of knowing your boiler pressure is more for troubleshooting.

Now if it's a brew gauge - that's a different topic, I think that may be of more utility to espresso making/tweaking. For this have some utility, I think you'll need easy access to that OPV adjustment so you can adjust the pressure as the situation deems.

[danetrainer]

Caeffe, regarding your electric bill and having the machine on 24/7. Your net electric consumption would be the ~2.5kilowatts/24hr- minus the total amount of electricity used to start up from cold to operating temp.

I have a small electrical unit that gives direct readings from a device for power consumption...it is called a
"Kill A Watt", I will run my Oscar on it this weekend and give you some hard data on Monday from what I find.

When I was checking out my "power hogs" around my place when I first bought this, I found the culprit was
my older model freezer...I recouped the cost of a new energy efficient compact freezer in the first year...and
I am saving around $20-30 a month on my power bill.

Now if it's a brew gauge - that's a different topic, I think that may be of more utility to espresso making/tweaking.

Yes, it is a pump pressure gauge (as opposed to a boiler pressure gauge) and I have some ideas for connections, but it will be trial and error until I find just where I am going to tap it in. I will take photos of both that and the vacuum breaker installation when I have them completed.

[cannonfodder]

It is amazing how much power all those little green/red/blue glowing lights consume. The leave it on or turn it off has been debated quite often, and similar attempts have been made to calculate the actual power draw. Jeff started a thread last year, Electricity Usage Monitorand used a Kill A Watt meter to check his power consumption. In the same thread are links to similar discussions.

[danetrainer]

Parts to modify the Oscar for a vacuum breaker and installation were easier than I anticipated...the hardest
part is bending the steam pipe (and being careful not to kink it) to line up properly. I took a small piece of
hardwood, drilled a 1/4 hole in it, then cut it across the hole to use it as holding fixture in my vice.

I've now modified the one thing that bothered me when I was planning to buy the Oscar...I was not wanting
to baby-sit it after I turned on the unit...with the steam valve open, to run over and close it once it started
steaming. (I knew sooner or later I would get sidetracked somewhere else and forget about it).

The last item to add is a small deflector along the side and top of the valve so the short (2-3 second) spurt of
moisture coming out of it as the pressure closes it does not get onto the solenoid valve to the left.

Parts used: Vacuum Breaker ($11.75), 1/4 Pipe thread brass T ($4.49) & 1/4 Pipe thread brass hex nipple
($1.59). I'm sure the manufacturer could have incorporated this in production for under $5 additional cost...
it makes no sense to me why they don't on a $1300 msrp unit!

[caeffe]

.............

The last item to add is a small deflector along the side and top of the valve so the short (2-3 second) spurt of
moisture coming out of it as the pressure closes it does not get onto the solenoid valve to the left.

Parts used: Vacuum Breaker ($11.75), 1/4 Pipe thread brass T ($4.49) & 1/4 Pipe thread brass hex nipple
($1.59). I'm sure the manufacturer could have incorporated this in production for under $5 additional cost...
it makes no sense to me why they don't on a $1300 msrp unit!

Nice Mod! I agree they should have incorporated this feature in. Probably one of those - if you want this feature you gotta step up to this model - marketing/market positioning decisions. Or possibly a reliability/warranty item they don't want to worry about - (a couple less joints).

Did you ever get a chance to do your Kill-A-Watt measurement?

[danetrainer]

Did you ever get a chance to do your Kill-A-Watt measurement?

Here are the readings from the Kill-A-Watt meter for the Oscar today:

Intial turn on: 10.28 Amps, 1200 Watt, 116.5 Volts, 60 Hertz.
Element off: .09 Amp, 3.0 Watt

Killowatt Hour readings from start-up and left on through course of the day:

30 min / .27 KWH 1st double shot, no steam.
33 min / .30 KWH steaming & 2 cleaning flushes
45 min / .35 KWH 2nd shot (this could be a work day/ then shut off...)

Readings throughout the day:

4 hours / .65 KWH 3rd shot
8 hours / 1.45 KWH 4th shot
12 hours / 2.00 KWH 6th shot

I got out my last electric bill and found the cost I am paying per KWH and it is .0716
so for my entire days usage it cost me $.143
That made me smile...I may never turn it off!

[JB130]

Parts used: Vacuum Breaker ($11.75), 1/4 Pipe thread brass T ($4.49) & 1/4 Pipe thread brass hex nipple ($1.59).

Thanks for the how-to, I think I might give it a try. Are these extra parts easy to find?

The pressure gauge sounds interesting too, please keep us posted.

John

[danetrainer]

Thanks for the how-to, I think I might give it a try. Are these extra parts easy to find?

Very easy to find, any supplier of commercial espresso machine parts in your country should have a vacuum breaker, and the fittings are common at any place that carries brass fittings.

I wasn't sure whether the breaker needed to be installed vertically, so I installed it that way, I have now
found them installed in some machines horizontally, so that must be ok, and may be easier to reshape the
steam wand piping.

BTW, I haven't installed the brew pressure gauge...I had adjusted the OPV valve off the machine and feel
it is fairly close, and I haven't decided the best way to install it yet.

Pat

[nixter]

Maybe I'm missing something but I just turn my machine on without releasing steam. After about 30 minutes to an hour I give the steam knob a quick twist and the heater light comes on then goes out again in under 10 seconds. Is the Oscar not properly ready to go at this point?

n