Prototype La Marzocco GS3 - A Pro's Perspective - Page 4

[King Seven]

4 on their way now!


Hooplah, as they say in Blighty.

[malachi]

And one more thing I forgot. Chris, your frequent complaint about the Linea, and dual boilers in general, was that one must wait a long time for the machine to adjust to a change in dialed brew temperature. How does the GS3 handle it?

Results:

+5F = 1:05
-5F = 2:55 (with 4x 4oz flush)

Total time to enter program mode, navigate, change temp and exit = 0:44

[malachi]

Day 6:

I forgot to post the tasting notes for the (one) Single Origin espresso I've tested so far. I'll have more notes on other coffees over the next few days.

I pulled some shots of the Olympia Coffee Roasting Peru Penachi.
Unfortunately, this is not a coffee I've either cupped or tasted from any other espresso machine - so I cannot provide a comparison.
On the other hand - it was a fantastic espresso. I found it to be a bit touchy on brew temp (0.3F made a huge difference with it). Once dialed in, however, I got a lovely shot.
Tons of brown sugar and blackstrap molasses. Cocoa and dark chocolate. Some cashew in the body. Plum syrup. Grape skin and leather.
This is a very sweet and heavy espresso.



Anyway, I've had to do some actual work today (sigh) and deal with doctor stuff. So I have not been able to get a ton of testing and eval in.

I have had time to pull a half-dozen shots of Stumptown Hairbender and make one cappuccino.
I feel like I've got the hang of the steaming now. Wasn't that hard to adjust after all.
The Hairbender has faded (it's 6 days old now) and on this machine it's starting to taste noticably alkaloid. Of course... it's starting to look amazing!




It's too bad that espresso starts to look so good just as the flavours get lost. Oh well... the fleeting nature of coffee.

Some other notes that I'd not covered fully in the past.

As I've mentioned in passing, this machine has tons of stainless steel. In particular, as far as I know pretty much everything that comes into contact with coffee other than the portafilter is stainless. That's right... no more brass. To clean the dispersion block you just undo the screw, pop off the screen and use a clean damp rag to wipe it down. No more green scrubbies. No more cigarette ash fish oil dirty machine taste. This is a very good thing!

I've been working with the naked portafilter so far - but I'm about to switch back to the traditional spouted one for a bit. While I like the taste from the naked, I have a better "sense memory" of coffees from the spouted portafilter and don't want to introduce another variable into the mix.

The wands on this machine are "cool touch" insulated wands. This is incredibly nice. I've finally lost all my Mistral steam wand scars - suffice it to say that I really, really appreciate this feature.

The tip on the steam wand is my personal favorite - the old Marzocco "acorn" 4-hole tip. This is, IMHO, a great tip. But... it's a very high pressure tip. It's a challenge for even experienced baristas to steam a small amount of milk - and I have a feeling that folks who are used to home machines would really struggle. It's probably going to be worthwhile to invest in a 2-hole tip as a sort of "training wheels" rig.

The drip tray is incredibly deep. There have been no incidents of any sort - and you can pretty much forget about it most of the time. It also pulls straight out, away from the machine so you don't need to tip it to remove it - again, minimizing the chances of incidents.

Filling the reservoir is dead simple. You just lift off a metal cover and this exposes two holes into the reservoir. Fill and go. The reservoir is enormous! Again... so far I've never even come close to running it dry.

The machine is very, very quiet. I've never used a machine with an internal pump that is anywhere near this quiet. There is little if any vibration, the only rattling you could get would be from your cups - and even then only in certain circumstances.

[OlywaDave]

So just got done going through my many pictures from yesterday and well I had to post this one for you Chris. Wouldn't you know it was one maybe 2 or 3 with the flash. I'm 95% sure this was one of your shots, wish I had remembered which coffee it was.

Thanks for having Terry and myself down. By the way lunch was most excellent and I was still thinking about that C-Note last night.

[Abe Carmeli]

Results:

+5F = 1:05
-5F = 2:55 (with 4x 4oz flush)

Total time to enter program mode, navigate, change temp and exit = 0:44

Oh baby, that ain't bad at all. I guess the smaller footprint has a big advantage here, when compared to a commercial 3 group.

[malachi]

Pretty much everything is like that with this machine... you know, where you imagine a really great performance spec and then when you test you find the machine exceeds it.

Scary.


So I'm inviting folks over to check the machine out on Friday morning. So far it looks like a pretty small turnout and a mix of pros and amateurs. I'm hoping more folks will make it - we shall see.

[espressoDOM]

I am not even sure this is possible but I totally need to refine my technique... because my naked pours are no where near as smooth as those you show....
I bet if I went through the naked thread on cGEEK I wouldn't find but make 1/3 of the posts are as consistent a pour as what I have seen in the pics of this machine working... is it all machine... or is combination machine and barista.....

because it seems like the mods that were done to my machine helped me diagnose problems.... but they also showed me problems in my technique

[malachi]

The machine helps - but a lot of it is just practice. Not skill, not intelligence - just brute force practice.

[HB]

is it all machine... or is combination machine and barista.....

I was thinking along the same lines, that is, how much of the spectacular results Chris et al are raving about would be preserved if handled by a non-professional? The notion is captured in the Buyer Guide's morning after score, though lately I've taken to calling it the "forgiveness factor."

It's certainly interesting to hear the feedback from professionals crowded around the GS3, but the majority of this site's visitors are likely home enthusiasts. So I think it's about time that Chris turns the portafilter over to someone who doesn't have Mistral steam wand scars, hmm-m?

[malachi]

Friday is the day... should be very cool!

[espressoDOM]

yeah... can't book a flight... but
having someone with HUMAN skills and HUMAN errors ingrained .....

see if they notice a difference.... When my machine was upgraded I totally noticed differences in my machine... NUANCES.....
but its still me pulling shots and I am far from an expert.. last weekend... I had beans that were either too fresh or not fresh enough

I am really struggling with coffee as a product with a short shelf life... it bothers me.... I am on the road 4 days a week so coffee is just getting old ...
a problem for another day I suppose

I like the GS3 and am VERY happy it is priced out IMPULSE BUY territory

[Abe Carmeli]

So I think it's about time that Chris turns the portafilter over to someone who doesn't have Mistral steam wand scars, hmm-m?

In order to experience the nuances of those colorful shot descriptions coming out of our Pro's pen (my all-time favorite: "Wild Orchids on a full moon" ), you must borrow his palate for an hour or two. Most home enthusiasts' reaction is likely to be: Where's the beef?

[malachi]

We shall see... we shall see...
I have more faith in humanity than you.

[HB]

Most home enthusiasts reaction is more likely to be: Where's the beef?

Indeed, I'm asking myself if I would appreciate the distinctions the GS3 would bring to the cup compared to top-end equipment costing far less, and how much of that gain is dependent on the operator. I'm reminded of a similar exchange when I questioned John Bicht's claim that any taster could detect pressure variances of as little as 0.1 bar:

I consider myself an average espresso lover and thus assume such minute subtleties would either be beyond my abilities to detect or acceptable variance. To put it in basic terms by way of example... I like red grapes more than white grapes, but I'll happily eat either for lunch. But if I'm really in the mood for grapes and we only have bananas in the house, well, I'm disappointed. I am struggling to grasp if the differences between such minute pressure changes would mean nicely ripe bananas, hard green bananas, or simply red grapes / white grapes. I don't mind a little serendipity in my espresso as long as it's within an acceptable range. In contrast, based on the writings of some professionals, I imagine them flying into a rage if the temperature is off by 0.4F from the previous extraction. That's not me.

Dan I think that the fruit tastes analogies might work, but I think to refine the enquiry.

But first let's go back to the ability of you to detect the flavor variations. As I have stated, no one has yet to fail to identify them. You might not, but I would find it hard to believe that someone with your interest in flavor would fail. A .1 bar change was even clearly noticed by a young woman who doesn't drink or like coffee. We didn't think to try her on .05.

The difference is not like red or white grapes, which if both of fine quality give equal pleasure. It is more akin to the difference between wonderful grapes and adequate/slightly inadequate grapes of any kind. Then within further revisions of pressure one will find a whole panoply of different flavors - some appealing and some not appealing and they all are difficult to describe, but clearly different.

...cont'd...

His analogy was a stretch, though easy for the layperson to grasp.

We shall see... we shall see...
I have more faith in humanity than you.

I look forward to your analogies of how the typical coffee non-professional experiences the GS3, both when operated by a seasoned pro and Joe/Jane Home-Barista. You may want to leave the full-moon orchid comparisons at the door.

[another_jim]

In terms of blind testing differences, one can posit a very simple ideal "market model" for espresos machines: machines that cost two and half times as much halve the errors of the cheaper machine.

So going from the Saeco to the Silvia, you go from 10F to 5F error on shots for about an extra $250
Going from the Silvia to the least expensive HX, you go from 5F error to 2.5F for an extra $625
Going from there to the new technology - dual boiler, PID etc. gets you from 2.5F to 1.25F for an extra $2000.

As one traverses this series (or one that fits the data a little better, but still has the same geometric series shape), there is a point where the error being halved is so small, one can no longer discern the improvement, and where the extra cost get quite serious.

Of course, there's also an ideal "coffeenut model" of a person, who wishing to convince others and himself with his discernment, bankrupts himself to show he not only discerns the ever smaller differences, but that he does it with such sensitivity that it's worth any price to satisfy.

But that model is a thread for the "on the couch" forum section. I'm the first candidate. since despite knowing all this, I'm totally tempted by the GS3.

[espressoDOM]

I gotta be HONEST.... My experience with Tacy..... is never underestimate....
The guy comes from a place I have never had a subpar shot @.... STUMPTOWN...
Highest praise I can give him.... He touted the last machine he reviewed the Bricoletta....
I wasn't skeptical or anything but I didn't think that rotary pumps would that big a deal....

I came over tried a few shots and a cappa.... NIGHT and DAY what I WAS getting at home at the time...

I know it was probably him... being the skilled barista he is.... but to know that you can yield that NEXT level on a home machine was inspiring...
I can only imagine what you as HOME ENTHUSIAST could get out of this machine...

Yeah you are probably paying like 10-100 dollars per shot over the life of the machine

20 years @ 5 shots a day = 36400 shots

8 dollars a shot over the life of the machine.... whew... crazeee...

ENGINEERs gotta luv em

no way it would ever be SMART for me to buy this machine... but WANTING to BUY IT.... never hurt anyone

[Abe Carmeli]

But that model is a thread for the "on the couch" forum section. I'm the first candidate. since despite knowing all this, I'm totally tempted by the GS3.

Jim, that's a tempting idea. I can see "On the Couch" as a 12 steps support group for the espresso-afflicted public. Only thing is, do you really want to be cured ?

[MOSFET]

I gotta be HONEST.... My experience with Tacy..... is never underestimate....
The guy comes from a place I have never had a subpar shot @.... STUMPTOWN...
Highest praise I can give him.... He touted the last machine he reviewed the Bricoletta....
I wasn't skeptical or anything but I didn't think that rotary pumps would that big a deal....

I came over tried a few shots and a cappa.... NIGHT and DAY what I WAS getting at home at the time...

I know it was probably him... being the skilled barista he is.... but to know that you can yield that NEXT level on a home machine was inspiring...
I can only imagine what you as HOME ENTHUSIAST could get out of this machine...

Yeah you are probably paying like 10-100 dollars per shot over the life of the machine

20 years @ 5 shots a day = 36400 shots

8 dollars a shot over the life of the machine.... whew... crazeee...

ENGINEERs gotta luv em

no way it would ever be SMART for me to buy this machine... but WANTING to BUY IT.... never hurt anyone

You divided upside down. 12.3 cents per shot.

Keith

[espressoDOM]

MOS... you got me... Doin' math in my head is SCARY... I am a calculator dude... and I was HALF sleep....
but lets be realistic..... then... since 12 cents sounds like a great deal over the life of 20 years
my situation is I live on the road.... so machine use would be about 208 days a year.... on the high side....
ROI is gotta be 10 years... because well I never keep anything much more than 10 years ....
in those 208 days I am probably pulling 5 to 10 shots so lets go low side.... 5 shots a day

wow still 43 cents a shot.... not bad for the life of a machine that is not getting used very much...
consider I could get at least 1000 for my espresso machine.. brings the price down to 3500 ...HMMMM
this is almost feasible... ALMOST

[MOSFET]

MOS... you got me... Doin' math in my head is SCARY... I am a calculator dude... and I was HALF sleep....
but lets be realistic..... then... since 12 cents sounds like a great deal over the life of 20 years
my situation is I live on the road.... so machine use would be about 208 days a year.... on the high side....
ROI is gotta be 10 years... because well I never keep anything much more than 10 years ....
in those 208 days I am probably pulling 5 to 10 shots so lets go low side.... 5 shots a day

wow still 43 cents a shot.... not bad for the life of a machine that is not getting used very much...
consider I could get at least 1000 for my espresso machine.. brings the price down to 3500 ...HMMMM
this is almost feasible... ALMOST

Perfect solution if you mean that you spend a lot of time in your car: Bring it with you! Use an inverter. The battery power will be no problem. This is a 10-15 amp machine. My headlights alone draw 16 amps.



Keith