Problems with Fast Shot Extraction

[mrosco]

I've had my Bricc for about 2 ½ weeks now and have primarily been using Black Cat beans and have been able to pull some very good shots. They start off bright, then get chocolately and finish a little sweet. I usually am able to pull shots in about the 25 second range. I'm definitely not perfect but have been pulling more good shots then bad.
My problem is I didn't reorder the Black Cat in time and had to buy beans from a local high end grocery store . They claim they roast their beans themselves so I'm sure they are only about 2 months old. I've had to use the beans since Saturday and have found the extraction takes about 15 seconds and turns blonde quickly. I initially thought I had a distribution and tamp problem but every shot comes out the same way. The first part of the shot is quick and it's not a thin string like I was getting, it's a fat string that starts off the right color then quickly moves to a thin blonde. I've pulled about 7 doubles all with the same result. Is this a channeling issue caused by bad distribution and tamping on my part or could the beans be too dry (old) causing the quick extraction? Fortunately I expect delivery of the black cat by Wednesday so I won't have to drink this swill much longer!

Also, could someone recommend a decent decaf. With the holidays here I would like to have something available to people.

Michael.

[HB]

The first part of the shot is quick and it's not a thin string like I was getting, it's a fat string that starts off the right color then quickly moves to a thin blonde...could the beans be too dry (old) causing the quick extraction?

Everything you've described indicates tired beans. They may be tolerable for drip coffee, or the initial garbage shot after a chemical backflush. This thread suggests a number of decaf espressos.

[malachi]

They claim they roast their beans themselves so I'm sure they are only about 2 months old.

The horror the horror!!!!

In general, with very (very) few exceptions coffees become pretty much unusable for espresso after 1.5 weeks.
2 month old coffee is a decent soil additive for certain Ph needs.

[Mark08859]

Classic example of older beans. It is a common thing to change you normal "espresso" parameters as beans age. Usually in grind or dosage. Make the changes to get back to something usable until fresh stuff arrives. Just remember to change only one thing at a time.

[cannonfodder]

How big of a difference do fresh beans make? Here is a shot using 'just opened the bag' StarBucks from the local megamart. It is in a cappa cup which is why it looks so short, that is 2oz.

[cannonfodder]

And a bit of fresh home roast



Freshness is the key, or at least one of the big three.

[Mark08859]

Anyone who is into espresso does not consider Starbuck's, or any other pre-bagged brand, to be fresh coffee. Starbuck's will give you a "use by" date which can be a few months. Folks do like them, however, you have no idea whatsoever as to when it was roasted. This may also be why Starbuck's does great milk-based drink business but not a straight espresso business.

Your pictures are a perfect example of the crema difference between fresh roasted and older beans.

[cannonfodder]

Illy is not much better. Even worse, the clear plastic bulk coffee bins of death. Unless you know when it was roasted, pass. Fresh coffee, good grind and proper tamp make up 90% of the skill set IMHO.

[malachi]

Fresh coffee, good grind and proper tamp make up 90% of the skill set IMHO.

I would humbly suggest that simply being fresh does not guarantee the results will be excellent.
And, of course, would also suggest that tamping is over-rated (but distribution is under-appreciated and mis-understood).

[HB]

And, of course, would also suggest that tamping is over-rated (but distribution is under-appreciated and mis-understood).

Speaking of tamping extraordinaire, I shelled out a good chunk of change for this baby:


Macap Dynamometric Tamper from the thread Home barista techniques that the pros shun (and vice versa)

My justification at the time was that I'd need it for consistency in reviews of grinders, close comparison tests of espresso machines, etc. Abe swears by his auto-tamper, but I recently noted cobwebs on mine. I dusted them off and moved it to my desk for decoration. Selling it would make more sense, but would prove that the initial investment was unnecessary, which I loath to admit.

(I make similarly unwise decisions in the stock market, please don't ask for details).

[Mark08859]

I would humbly suggest that simply being fresh does not guarantee the results will be excellent.
And, of course, would also suggest that tamping is over-rated (but distribution is under-appreciated and mis-understood).

Agreed. Fresh coffee in and of itself won't guarantee great crema/coffe. Same thing for tamping alone. One needs the right combination of grind, dose, and tamp (plus fresh beans ) to get excellent results.

[cannonfodder]

I would classify the distribution as part of the tamp process. The physical tamp is relatively easy after a bit of practice. The old bathroom scale is a wonderful teacher. If you subscribe to the light tamp or heavy tamp methodology, consistency is the key.

The proper distribution and volume are much more involved and often overlooked by the new home barista (which I still am), and quite often the pro poser at the local cafe. That was a grossly simplified list, most of which is on the handle side of the system.

I would prefer to be a skilled barista with 'average' equipment than a bad barista with top of the line equipment. I completely agree, fresh beans are not necessarily good beans, nor do they ensure a quality shot. But without fresh roasted coffee from good quality beans roasted and blended by a skilled roaster, you will never get good results. One of the key variables in the espresso formula.

[zaphod]

I move my beans to the emergency back up bin after 7-8 days. It's amazing to do a comparison to, say 15 day old beans versus 2-3 day old beans. It nearly resembles the posted photos. Once beyond the month period, the degradation is less noticeable because it's already degraded. Most non obsessed coffee drinkers have never entered the sub month timeframe so they don't even know how good it can be. For you, who usually gets something fresh and good like Black Cat can never go back to what the rest of the world suffers through in ignorance.

And yes (to respond to other posts), technique is a huge factor but no expert barista is going to be able to coax a delicious shot from two month old SMoreBux coffee.

I'd recommend that you slightly overbuy your beans to ensure that you never run out again. I give away my backup beans to less discerning friends who will use it for drip. So nothing's wasted in the end. They're happy because my "old" beans are better and newer than their freshly bought ahem, gourmet beans.

speaking of... i need a macchiato right now.

[PhaetonFalling]

My justification at the time was that I'd need it for consistency in reviews of grinders, close comparison tests of espresso machines, etc. Abe swears by his auto-tamper, but I recently noted cobwebs on mine. I dusted them off and moved it to my desk for decoration. Selling it would make more sense, but would prove that the initial investment was unnecessary, which I loath to admit.

(I make similarly unwise decisions in the stock market, please don't ask for details).

Who ever talked about selling?

How about mutual gifting? How does that sound to you... You can, in a way, consider it a 0 quantity donation to someone to would want such tamper (note... ME...) such as it were. How about "distribution of knowledge." I like that one...

If it were, that you would distribute such hands on knowledge, what would it cost? I'm curious...

Sincerely,

Namson