Synesso Cyncra Single Group - A Home Barista's Perspective - Page 2

[lennoncs]

Sean, I love them nevertheless! hell they are 10 times prettier than those stilts-for-legs I had before .

For those who were not in the kitchen(which is everybody) when Abe and I were doing temp testing on the brewtus "pre-chicken leg"; I was holding the machine down and Abe was locking in the PF because it was balancing on these little bits of wood....the sad part was I had a part in the bits of wood also.

Sean

[malachi]

Nice report!!
sounds like some fantastic espresso!

some thoughts...

...keeping dosage at 16 grams with an L/M ridged basket.

suggest experimenting with the Vivace espressos downdosed slightly in an LM triple basket. I think you'll find superior results.

...I have used Daterra Reserve before from Caffe Fresco, and I roasted it myself a few times. I know that blend very well. It is a forgiving blend on both dosage and temperature, and has a medium body. I dialed it low 197f intentionally. Came out too light on body, a little undefined, and sour. Dosage was 16 grams. Let it go up to 199f, it is coming together. Fruit, marzipan, and those wonderful floral aromas. At 200-201f I got the best result. Medium body, chocolate, incredible aromatics, fruity, balanced, rounded. A big wow. A fantastic straight shot, I dare say, the best Daterra shot I've had.

The Ecco Caffe Daterra is a noticably different roast (both degree and profile) than the Caffe Fresco.
I'd suggest looking, again, at a different dose and possibly different basket (triple basket, standard dose or ridged double, 17.5 gram dose).



Also... with both coffees, what sort of volume/time are you shooting for?
Are you sticking with the same time/volume for all espressos?

[Abe Carmeli]

Nice report!!


The Ecco Caffe Daterra is a noticably different roast (both degree and profile) than the Caffe Fresco.
I'd suggest looking, again, at a different dose and possibly different basket (triple basket, standard dose or ridged double, 17.5 gram dose).

It does taste different than Fresco's roast. I did not have enough time to fine tune dosage, and I generally settled on ranges of 16-17.5 grams depending on the coffee.

Also... with both coffees, what sort of volume/time are you shooting for?
Are you sticking with the same time/volume for all espressos?

Dolce:
16 grams
27 seconds
1.5 oz

Daterra:
17g
26 seconds
1.75 oz

[Abe Carmeli]

suggest experimenting with the Vivace espressos downdosed slightly in an LM triple basket. I think you'll find superior results

Chris,

Out of curiosity, what dosage/basket is Schomer using for Dolce?

[Jepy]

When I started modifying my Synesso groups I noticed what I thought to be possible lower temp traps in two locations, 1 at the top where the shower screen attaches, it is at least 1/2" deep circular area (from inside tank), and the bottom shelf like area near the 3 way valve mount. This really seemed to be possible when the groups sat idle for a while. Just a theory though....

[Abe Carmeli]

When I started modifying my Synesso groups I noticed what I thought to be possible lower temp traps in two locations, 1 at the top where the shower screen attaches, it is at least 1/2" deep circular area (from inside tank), and the bottom shelf like area near the 3 way valve mount. This really seemed to be possible when the groups sat idle for a while. Just a theory though....

How did you modify the groups, and why? Was it a temp stability issue?

[houdina]

Abe, since Synesso said no secrets, could you post some interior photos. I'd love to see how they handled preheating brew boiler feed water and other interesting bits.
Gregg

[Abe Carmeli]

Abe, since Synesso said no secrets, could you post some interior photos. I'd love to see how they handled preheating brew boiler feed water and other interesting bits.
Gregg

Yes, that post is coming up a little later this week.

[malachi]

Chris,

Out of curiosity, what dosage/basket is Schomer using for Dolce?

Triple basket, downdosed slightly (should end up slightly below the line).

[malachi]

Dolce:
16 grams
27 seconds
1.5 oz

Daterra:
17g
26 seconds
1.75 oz

Suggest:

Dolce: triple basket, 19grams, LM triple basket, 28seconds, 1.5oz
Ecco Daterra reserve: 19.5grams, LM triple basket, 28 seconds, 2oz (or 17.5grams, ridged double basket, 25 seconds, 1.75oz for a different profile)


Feel free to drop me a PM if you have coffees you're going to test and want to take a 'shortcut' vis a vis dose/extraction/temp

[Abe Carmeli]

Suggest:

Dolce: triple basket, 19grams, LM triple basket, 28seconds, 1.5oz

I just pulled that one. Wow, the body is so thick you can eat it with a spoon, and the flavors are more dense. A wonderful shot.

[Abe Carmeli]

Here's this morning's ristretto

Counter Culture Coffee Toscano. Sweet, heavy body, chocolate, and very tolerant. Ideal for home usage.

Under a Toscan Sun

[malachi]

I just pulled that one. Wow, the body is so thick you can eat it with a spoon, and the flavors are more dense. A wonderful shot.

The Dolce is a finicky coffee but when it's good... damn is it ever good!

[jasonmolinari]

I recommend you immediately send me your Illy Fossile cup.

thanks
jason

[Abe Carmeli]

I recommend you immediately send me your Illy Fossile cup.

thanks
jason

I had to dig long and hard to unearth that one. If you are a cup-nut, stay tuned, I have a few more jewels I'm going to share during this review.

[Jepy]

How did you modify the groups, and why? Was it a temp stability issue?

At first wasn't really a temp issue. I've been working on different pressure delivery methods for some time now, and this group design just wouldn't work the way I wanted it to. I'm now making my own groups, different valve location, different neck shape, a few other differences.

Just trying to push the envelope a little more

[Abe Carmeli]

DAY 4

Today is steaming day. So how does she steam you ask? Oh she blows, she blows hard. Steaming on the Cyncra is like riding a rodeo bull, and I've been hanging out with donkeys up until now. The four hole steam tip has the power to self propel the machine to a low orbit.

My first attempt at steaming ended up with a lot of foam, most of it on my face, and everything within a 30 foot radius. Call it baptism by milk. I am a pathetic excuse for a steamer to begin with. I dislike milk, and I steam only occasionally when I entertain. So, putting me in the driver seat of that monster is rather comical.

But perhaps I am a good example of what a novice will go through with the Cyncra. The average prosumer home machine will steam within a time frame of 20-30 seconds, depending on quantity and steam tip used. The Cyncra finishes it in 7-8 seconds. So, a laid back approach to steaming will not work here. I had to re-learn steaming and move it in a much faster pace.

The steam wand is wonderful, with excellent articulation. Stretching does not take more than 3 seconds in most cases; unless you are shooting for a very foamy cappuccino, throw away the thermometer altogether. I worked solely by feeling the warmth of the pitcher wall. As a general rule, as soon as you feel some heat on the pitcher wall, stop stretching, and move to texturing. I started in the middle of the pitcher with the tip just under the surface to hear the Ts ts ts sound, and quickly moved the wand closer to the pitcher wall and down towards the pitcher bottom to start swirling the milk in a clockwise direction.

Here are the results:

Steaming results after 5 tries. Notice some bubbles, and cotton ball in the middle. This pitcher was overstretched

On the 7th try, looks like chrome to me, and was very sweet

Steaming on the 10th try, for a cappuccino


When done right, the molten chrome produces very sweet milk, the sweetest I've tasted on a home machine.

There is a difference in steaming between the 220v version of the Cyncra & the 110v. The heat element in the 220v is twice the size. (2000W). That allows for a quicker recovery and also better steaming of very large quantities of milk (1 Liter). But for home usage, I did not see any problems in the machine's recovery time.

Another consideration between the 110 & 220V may be this: The Cyncra pre-heats the brew boiler water by running a H/X through the steam boiler. If you steam and pull a shot at the same time, a faster decline in boiler pressure will result in cooler water entering the brew boiler. I am not sure if this will have any affect on brew temperature, within the time frame of a shot, and my gut reaction is that it won't. It is 3 oz of water entering the center of a 3 liter boiler slightly cooler.

[Jepy]

DAY 4


Another consideration between the 110 & 220V may be this: The Cyncra pre-heats the brew boiler water by running a H/X through the steam boiler. If you steam and pull a shot at the same time, a faster decline in boiler pressure will result in cooler water entering the brew boiler. I am not sure if this will have any affect on brew temperature, within the time frame of a shot, and my gut reaction is that it won't. It is 3 oz of water entering the center of a 3 liter boiler slightly cooler.

I used to run my stock Synesso with the steam tank elements off (3 group has 2 elements). I don't do milk drinks myself, and wanted to see if the brew boilers could handle the inrush of cold water in the shot quantity I was doing. I never fluked the results, but from taste, I couldn't see a difference, keep in mind though, this was a very small quantity of shots. My guess is the steam tank dropping from the cold water filling it would not make much of a difference if any.

[lennoncs]

Hello all,
I apologize for the delay in posting data, I have been a bit slammed at work lately.

I took a quick trip over to the big city to see Abe, the Cyncra and help out with some of the testing duties, I can't think of a finer host for my stay...on to the meat of my part of this adventure.
For collections duties I pressed into service my small portable data acquisition system that is powered from my laptop.

I use a graphical data acquisition and control software called DasyLab to perform the data collection duties and provide a dynamic graphical interface that we can use to make quick measurements on-the-fly during testing.

Here is the setup:



And here is the data:

Series 0
Brew Temperature Reproducibility ˚F (6.3) .65
Espresso Machine Temperature Stability ˚F (6.4) 1.36

Series 1
Brew Temperature Reproducibility ˚F (6.3) 1.28
Espresso Machine Temperature Stability ˚F (6.4) 1.80

Series 2
Brew Temperature Reproducibility ˚F (6.3) .51
Espresso Machine Temperature Stability ˚F (6.4) 1.41

Thanks,
Sean

[Abe Carmeli]

A few comments on the Cyncra's thermal performance:

1) After idle time it cools down and requires a flush to bring it up to temperature. I noticed it in the cup when doing test shots on Dolce, but Sean's graphs clearly show the pattern. This may be improved by moving the channel leading water to the grouphead from the bottom of the neck to the top, where the water is warmer.

2) It suffers from trailing off the set brew temperature occasionally even when it is warmed up. Sometimes the difference between two consequitive shots can be as large as 1.9f. You can see it clearly on all three test series, where even when the shots were back to back, a couple of them would have 1.5-1.9f difference in brew temperature. We speculate that this is partially due to its slow RTD probes in the boiler, (It does not use thermocouples). An upgrade to a faster (platinum) RTD may improve the machine's performance

3) The WBC protocol is not the best way to test a machine's performance for home usage. I don't want to open another can of worms and divert the discussion here from the machine to the protocol, but here are the problems I have with it:

a) When calculating the reproducibility score, it drops the first 4 shots. For a home user, the first 4 shots are the most important shots. We rarely pull more than 4 shots a day, or in a session.

b) It favors back to back shots, something that is not typical to home usage

c) It assumes 15 seconds to dose tamp and pull shot: again not typical, we take longer to do that and some of us tamp into the basket leaving the P/F in the machine all that time

d) It takes the barista out of the equation altogether, and ignores the fact that different machines require different operation procedure to perform. A good barista, using a more home typical shot interval routine, will beat the L/M GS3 and the Synesso on the reproducibility score. I did it on the Brewtus, without much effort.

It reminds me of the joke about that professor who taught statistics, and drowned in a pool which had an average depth of 30".