So how does it taste????



seriously, maybe an update from the team describing what beans they have been trying, what sort of results they are getting?

Comparisons to other machines espressos maybe? Things that you have to do different then a Rancillo home setup etc..

lots of pages of the building of it, now that that part is frozen, lets talk the fruit of your hard labor, espresso!

P.S.

I tried a test mule when john was in LA.

had about 4-5 partial shots, it was kinda chaos, and its not the place to set up and dial things in, but 1 was meh. 3 were great and 1 had a silk ness i have never come close to on my Crossland CC1! abs. wonderful shot.

I too am excited for this december!

espresslou wrote:had about 4-5 partial shots, it was kinda chaos, and its not the place to set up and dial things in, but 1 was meh. 3 were great and 1 had a silk ness i have never come close to on my Crossland CC1! abs. wonderful shot.

There really isn't a flavor profile to the DE1/DE1+ -- it can emulate a wide range of machines. At Revolver in Vancouver, I pulled shots next to a Black Eagle with the same pressure and temp settings, and the all-pro audience thought they were comparable.

Beans wise, I've been working with a roaster named Tuberga in Italy,
http://www.eurocafcaffe.it/en/prodotti/ ... um-quality

They've been fresh-medium-roasting custom blends for us, and flying them to us. I was interested to see what we could do with a high end Italian roaster, who was roasting in a classic style, but with high quality beans, and getting them fresh, within 2 days of roasting. It's pretty eye opening.

What I was curious about was if I could make intensely chocolatey shots that had a lot of roundness and top notes. Something very classic, but decidedly high end, and still pleasing people with a 3rd wave lean. Currently, the flavor is less "bitter dark chocolate" and more "Lindt dark chocolate", ie it tastes like a professional blend of chocolates, very low acidity, and fairly bright.

Because Italian beans are almost always bought outside of Italy when they're old, and only the cheap beans are generally exported, I really wanted to give them a chance to shine. We're tinkering with the idea of having our own "Decent beans", if for no other reason that we know you'll get good results with them, and then you can switch to a local bean source once you've mastered these.

AERATED STEAM and AERATED WATER FOR ESPRESSO

I've noticed that some professional machines can foam milk even when the tip is fully plunged under the milk surface. My assumption is that they're mixing a bit of air into their steam in order to do this. Our DE1 steam is just water, and to create foam you need to expose the steam wand tip slightly above the milk surface.

Do any of you know about a HB discussion (or elsewhere) about air added to steam?

For the DE1CAFE, we're thinking about having a precision air pump so that you can choose exactly how much air you want in your steam.

And another topic, if you're into tea, you may already know that you should never double-boil your kettle, because the water will taste flat (low oxygen). I suspect the same applies to espresso, and (a) it's possible that the DE1 will have higher levels of dissolved air than a boiler, because the water is constantly moving (and splashing back into the water tank as it's preheated) but also because (b) it's finally heated under pressure where the air bubbles can't escape.

Ray and I were wondering if anyone has experimented with injecting air into water for espresso, and what effect that might have.

I've ordered https://waterforcoffeebook.com which might have answers to some of these questions.

There really isn't a flavor profile to the DE1/DE1+ -- it can emulate a wide range of machines. At Revolver in Vancouver, I pulled shots next to a Black Eagle with the same pressure and temp settings, and the all-pro audience thought they were comparable.

Checks watch to see if its December.

We're tinkering with the idea of having our own "Decent beans"

Would buy.

CHHendon wrote:Water For Coffee

Christopher Hendon, author of Water For Coffee is on HB and might chip in.

dissolved O2 in water does not change the chemistry of the water itself. dissolved CO2 decreases pH. dissolved N2 does nothing.
we don't discuss dissolved air beyond the origin of the buffer in water for coffee.

Relatedly, the notion that dissolved oxygen in fresh versus reboiled water has an effect on tea is questionable, as noted here:

http://hotwatermagic.blogspot.com/2013/ ... xygen.html

What do you guys think about the role of dissolved oxygen in the creation of crema?

A Nespresso shot seems to have a huge amount of dissolved oxygen in it, which you can see as air bubbles, and I have wondered if this is at the root of their much-admired crema quantity. Take a look at this photo below to see what I mean about nespresso shots and air bubbles:

decent_espresso wrote:AERATED STEAM and AERATED WATER FOR ESPRESSO

I've noticed that some professional machines can foam milk even when the tip is fully plunged under the milk surface. My assumption is that they're mixing a bit of air into their steam in order to do this. Our DE1 steam is just water, and to create foam you need to expose the steam wand tip slightly above the milk surface.

Do any of you know about a HB discussion (or elsewhere) about air added to steam?

For the DE1CAFE, we're thinking about having a precision air pump so that you can choose exactly how much air you want in your steam.

The Breville Oracle does this and few others like the NS Appia or Aurelia (as an option). But the quality of the microfoam is not perfect. Good but not perfect. On the Oracle you can select your texture so the air pump will vary the duration of the air that is introduced. But maybe you guys could perfect that a little bit.

decent_espresso wrote:What do you guys think about the role of dissolved oxygen in the creation of crema?

A Nespresso shot seems to have a huge amount of dissolved oxygen in it, which you can see as air bubbles, and I have wondered if this is at the root of their much-admired crema quantity. Take a look at this photo below to see what I mean about nespresso shots and air bubbles:
<image>

I've always assumed Nespresso extractions were similar to pressurized portafilter shots. The same method used on cheap espresso machines to create abundant pseudo crema with preground coffee. My assumption, correct or not, is they found a proprietary way to accomplish the same pressurized method with their capsules. My theory is the capsule is punctured, and the water is forced through at probably over 9 bar, and the pod itself fills up to a certain pressure and acts as the pressurized portafilter.

I've always assumed super automatics also use a pressurized method. I just don't have the scientific knowledge to back up my assumption.

My question is whether the act of pressurizing a shot on cheap machines/super automatics is doing what you've described... dissolving oxygen to create the bubbles/fake crema. Or, is another process occurring?

Besides it being very mediocre espresso... From a taste perspective, I've always thought Nespresso crema was generally lighter in colour and tasted like airy foam compared to genuine crema. For lack of a better description, Nespresso crema tastes fake.

James Hoffmann did some analysis of Nespresso a while back. But he didn't follow up with a part two:
http://www.jimseven.com/2015/05/21/an-a ... so-part-i/