blackrobe1540 wrote:So...I take it a 16g dose won't necessarily generate a 32g beverage? What should one use as a constant in dialing in shots? dose? time? color? grind? Because it seems that output volume is out, no?

You should be able to get to 32g without much problem. You could try preinfusing longer.

Where does your lever "catch" when you lift it up? A really high catch point means there is a lot of air trapped in the chamber and you will have a lower shot volume.

I've never considered this. How would one release that air??

Hooah wrote:I dose 17g or 18g depending on the beans I'm using at the time with a 5 second PI (perfect for my dark roast) and pull the shot away between 30-35g depending if it's for cappu or espresso.

Thanks, Dan, that's really helpful!

For lighter beans, try this recipe: 14 to 16g, 15 second preinfusion, shot weight 28 to 32g.

There are a few ways to get more water into the chamber, but they all come with side effects of one sort or another:

• Preinfuse for a longer period of time. My preferred preinfusion time is 15 seconds. I find this number works well for levers such as yours which have a preinfusion pressure at about 1 bar. Longer preinfusion times can have a negative affect on rather darkly roasted coffee however.
• Grind coarser. This allows both air to escape and lets the water penetrate more of the puck at preinfusion time, but of course it will cause the shot to flow faster.
• Increase your boiler pressure. This in turn increases your preinfusion pressure, compressing the air more and getting more water into the chamber. The side effect here is that your preinfusion pressure is higher and your group will run hotter since your boiler water will be hotter.
• Do a Fellini maneuver. This is basically lifting the lever slowly up until you see beading espresso at the bottom of the basket and then bringing the lever back down to refill the chamber before letting it up a second time to complete the shot. I prefer not to do this on a commercial lever group although there are those who like this method. It can be sort of unpredictable as you are applying pressure, releasing it, and then reapplying it. There is also the risk of thrashing the puck with this technique although some people claim no negative side affects, so your mileage may vary.

redbone wrote:^
As Séb stated most lever machines operate with similar mechanics and principles and require similar care and maintenance. Preventative measures such as the use of treated water having no chlorine and low mineral content TDS of 90-150 ppm will save you from a descale which can cause issues.
The beauty of lever machines beyond their natural inherent ramping and controlled profiling is their ease of maintenance and care.


More information on ideal water for espresso can be found here.

http://www.lamarzoccousa.com/wp-content ... ations.pdf

http://scaa.org/chronicle/2013/07/08/di ... -standard/

* I'm in the process of doing a complete overhaul on a 76 La Pavoni Europiccola which clearly was used without treated water. Chunks of limescale in the boiler requiring both removal of the heating element and citric acid solution internal soak for the removal of harder surface scale. The element has now returned to it's nice copper colour.

Good advice! Keep the water clean that meets the parameters and you will be fine. I put a water meter on the espresso machine line so I can change the filters when necessary.

Gents,

I've noticed that my brew temperature may be low. It's around 185-188F right out of the group. (My understanding is brew temp should be in the 190s). The PID has been set at 248. It's up to 251 now, but I haven't seen dramatic change yet.

Is it likely that Profitec has a graph showing the relationship between boiler temperature with brew temperature?

Your thoughts on this are welcome...

Hey John,

Your brew temp is affected in part by the boiler temp and in part by the lever group head temp. The lever acts like a heat sink and cools the super heated boiler water to brew range just as it hits the coffee. If your lever group's temp is very low then your brew temperature will be rather low as well.
What is the temperature of the room your Pro 800 is running in? A cooler ambient temperature will affect your brew temp. I've noticed with my lever that it tends to run hotter in the summer and cooler in the winter.
If you pull two shots back to back you should notice that the second shot is hotter. This is because it will take the group a minute or two to dissipate all that extra heat it pulled out of the water during the last shot. You can use this to your advantage to get a hotter shot by pulling two shots in a row or flushing for a few seconds before your shot.
Here is a thread with more information about temperature management with commercial lever groups: Commercial Lever Temperature Management Techniques

blackrobe1540 wrote:Is it likely that Profitec has a graph showing the relationship between boiler temperature with brew temperature?

There is a graph that shows the boiler pressure to boiler temp relationship, it will be useful to determine if your PID and boiler pressure gauge agree with each other. According to the chart, with your PID at 251 your boiler pressure gauge should be reading just a little less than 1.1 bar. To see a noticeable change in brew temp you might have to set the PID up to 258 or something like that. Keep in mind this will affect your preinfusion pressure a bit as well, as your boiler pressure is equal to your preinfusion pressure.

blackrobe1540 wrote:Gents,

I've noticed that my brew temperature may be low. It's around 185-188F right out of the group. (My understanding is brew temp should be in the 190s). The PID has been set at 248. It's up to 251 now, but I haven't seen dramatic change yet.

Is it likely that Profitec has a graph showing the relationship between boiler temperature with brew temperature?

How are you measuring the brew temp? It can't be accurate if less than a Scace/thermofilter was used. At 251F PID setting and 1-hour warm up time, your brew temp is definitely 200 deg F or above. 248F is a good starting point and adjust from there by taste.

I'm measuring the temperature of the water straight out of the group using a thermapen.

http://www.thermoworks.com/Classic-Thermapen?color=16

Yeah, that won't do unfortunately. The moment the water is out of the group, before even touching the probe, it'll be cooled down by the ambient air (77F). I suppose you do see flash boiling at the group head when flushing/measuring? That'll be an indicator it's closer to 212F than 188F the Thermapen had displayed.