Water Quality Issue - High pH - Page 2

Water analysis, treatment, and mineral recipes for optimum taste and equipment health.
robertw (original poster)
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#11: Post by robertw (original poster) »

So according to Robert, it is not a hard and fast rule that coffee water needs to have some hardness. Seems a right amount of alkalinity can make up for it. Hmmm...

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keno
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#12: Post by keno »

robertw wrote:A question for the distilled +KHCO3 mix: Don't you need some water hardness(Ca or Mg ions)? The distilled water should have near zero hardness and KHCO3 contributes to alkalinity but no hardness.
Yes, for best taste you need some Ca or Mg hardness. Cations are positively charged ions, anions are negatively charged ions. Ca, Mg, Na, and K are all cations, but the important difference is that Ca and Mg have a charge of +2, while Na and K have a charge of +1. This has a big impact on what type of compounds they can readily combine with and thereby help to extract from the ground coffee. This article and the book Water for Coffee discuss some of the scientific reasearch upon which this is based.

But a lot of people on the HB boards can speak from experience as well. I used to use a water formulation of Na and K bicarbonate based on rpavlis's recommendations. It works great to ensure that your water is espresso machine safe, but the taste is subpar compared to water with some Ca or Mg. So now I'm using water formulated with sodium bicarbonate and magnesium sulfate in a slightly stronger formulation than 70/30 water. Here is a link to the recipe.

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spressomon
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#13: Post by spressomon »

Robert: FWIW this is a photo of my current set-up with the 10-gallon NSF poly tank, 2-gallon Shurflo SS accumulator, Aquatec pump (sitting on top of the accumulator), pressure regulator and waste/drain container.

No Espresso = Depresso

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spressomon
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#14: Post by spressomon »

Ken, how would you describe the taste difference? Same for dark to light roast levels?
No Espresso = Depresso

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erics
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#15: Post by erics »

With a machine, the most espresso drinks I will make is 2 during weekdays and 2-4 during weekend. Is plumb-in necessary?
No, but as you can read from the multitude of posts on this site, those who plumb in would never go back.

The two plumb-in machines you cited are both fully capable of also drawing from the supplied reservoir so I would suggest you start that way with a "good" bottled water and enjoy the machine for a few months before making any decision.
Skål,

Eric S.
http://users.rcn.com/erics/
E-mail: erics at rcn dot com

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keno
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#16: Post by keno »

spressomon wrote:Ken, how would you describe the taste difference? Same for dark to light roast levels?
More flavors, better balanced, less sour and harsh.

I'd say it makes more difference with lighter roasts where underextraction is more of an issue, but both definitely taste better.

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spressomon
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#17: Post by spressomon »

Look forward to trying it ... thx Ken.
No Espresso = Depresso

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robertw (original poster)
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#18: Post by robertw (original poster) »

Spyderman24-7 wrote:One simple approach if you go the tank route is to simply run your tap water through a Pur pitcher filter. These types of filters will get rid of the chlorine and drop the pH in the process. Based on testing I've done, the before/after for my tap water averages .8-1.0 drop in pH. I use a Taylor test kit as I'm a CPO and the accuracy is rather high.

My municipality supplied water is the highest quality/best balanced of any place I've lived. I use the Pur to filter out what bit of residual chlorine is present as the water is superb otherwise.
What you said really surprises me. In fact, I've been filtering my coffee water with Pur for years but I never bother to check the PH. I didn't think it will have an effect on PH because I have a huge carbon filter that I use to get rid of chlorine for my koi pond and the PH is un-changed before and after. After reading your post, I checked the PH of Pur filtered water and sure enough the PH dropped from 8.5 to 7.5! The Pur filter may have also reduced the alkalinity some from 160 to 140. Unfortunately, the alkalinity of 140 is still too high.

robertw (original poster)
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Joined: 7 years ago

#19: Post by robertw (original poster) »

spressomon wrote:Robert: FWIW this is a photo of my current set-up with the 10-gallon NSF poly tank, 2-gallon Shurflo SS accumulator, Aquatec pump (sitting on top of the accumulator), pressure regulator and waste/drain container.

<image>
Thanks for posting the picture. Unfortunately, it pretty much rule out the plumb-in route in my case. I have some space under the sink for one 5-gal tank and that's about it.

robertw (original poster)
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#20: Post by robertw (original poster) »

keno wrote:Yes, for best taste you need some Ca or Mg hardness. Cations are positively charged ions, anions are negatively charged ions. Ca, Mg, Na, and K are all cations, but the important difference is that Ca and Mg have a charge of +2, while Na and K have a charge of +1. This has a big impact on what type of compounds they can readily combine with and thereby help to extract from the ground coffee. This article and the book Water for Coffee discuss some of the scientific reasearch upon which this is based.

But a lot of people on the HB boards can speak from experience as well. I used to use a water formulation of Na and K bicarbonate based on rpavlis's recommendations. It works great to ensure that your water is espresso machine safe, but the taste is subpar compared to water with some Ca or Mg. So now I'm using water formulated with sodium bicarbonate and magnesium sulfate in a slightly stronger formulation than 70/30 water. Here is a link to the recipe.
Thanks for the link to the 70/30 water, very useful info.