Contemplating Espresso Rabbit Hole - first machine advice - Page 2
- Jared
- Posts: 169
- Joined: 10 years ago
I started with a Gaggia Classic and Baratza Vario. I quickly got fed up with the inconsistent results of the Gaggia and added an Auber PID, which was a waste of money in my opinion. It allowed you to tell what temperature your boiler started at, but due to the tiny boiler that temperature would drop quickly. Then you start messing with the steam blips to try to even it out and you have no idea what is really going on...
I recently sold that setup and bought a Breville Dual Boiler (BDB - BES920XL) which I have been getting amazing results with. I wanted to get one of the fancy shiny machines that cost ~$2,000, but my wife wasn't having it lol. Thankfully I was able to jump on a brief Amazon price drop and got the machine for $1,088. I only drink milk drinks and it produces great microfoam. I can steam a pitcher in 25 seconds or so.
I would skip the basic beginner machines because you will become frustrated quickly causing you to want to upgrade and in turn, you will have lost money since you won't recoup what you paid for it.
I recently sold that setup and bought a Breville Dual Boiler (BDB - BES920XL) which I have been getting amazing results with. I wanted to get one of the fancy shiny machines that cost ~$2,000, but my wife wasn't having it lol. Thankfully I was able to jump on a brief Amazon price drop and got the machine for $1,088. I only drink milk drinks and it produces great microfoam. I can steam a pitcher in 25 seconds or so.
I would skip the basic beginner machines because you will become frustrated quickly causing you to want to upgrade and in turn, you will have lost money since you won't recoup what you paid for it.
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- Posts: 64
- Joined: 7 years ago
Hi Jared, it looks like you are still using the vario, and sounds like it's working well for you with the BDB?Jared wrote:I started with a Gaggia Classic and Baratza Vario.
I liked the vario OK but found it challenging to switch settings back and forth for different coffees while single dosing, and didn't love the feel or functionality of the adjustment system. Hard to tell exactly how much of that difficultly was the Gaggia, so maybe Jared can help fill in that info for OP?
- Jared
- Posts: 169
- Joined: 10 years ago
You are correct that changing settings back and forth isn't the Vario's strong suit, but lately, it hasn't been a problem. I make note of the setting I like for different coffees and I have been changing it on the fly recently without issue. The changes are fairly minor and I imagine it would be a larger issue if I was making substantial changes for different brew methods, but all I do is espresso. I'm finishing off a bag of Stumptown Hair Bender that I picked up at their New Orleans location and it has been delicious! I'm going to pick up a couple of bags the next time I'm over there.
- Compass Coffee
- Posts: 2844
- Joined: 19 years ago
+1seakuv wrote:If you have the opportunity to grab a La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II for a good price, I'd grab it. They're excellent machines that will provide easy, solid results for a long time. Great machine! You won't be juggling trying to get the machine to produce good espresso. The variables will be the grinder, the beans and you.
Mike McGinness
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- Posts: 867
- Joined: 15 years ago
The plumbed in version is also greatseakuv wrote:If you have the opportunity to grab a La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II for a good price, I'd grab it. They're excellent machines that will provide easy, solid results for a long time. Great machine! You won't be juggling trying to get the machine to produce good espresso. The variables will be the grinder, the beans and you.
- JmanEspresso
- Posts: 1462
- Joined: 15 years ago
Had a Vivaldi II plumbed rotary version for a while, really liked it. I often miss it. Its a great machine to use. And those 53mm portafilters, ehh, you get used to them by your third shot. Really not the big deal that they can be made out to be. Although I have said that if that machine was a 58mm, it would be the most popular machine on the market, the rotary version particulary. Anywho.
The irony of the tiers of espresso machines, is, you dont usually get to the high end until you are at the very least marginally competent, and usually pretty darn competent, at not just making a drinkable shot, but properly dialing in a coffee, keeping it dialed in throughout the bag, and then doing it again with an entirely different coffee the next week. So by the time you get to the easy to use machine and grinder, its a cakewalk.
You need the skills you develop over time, to really squeeze out the performance from entry level gear.
Anytime the Single Boiler/Dual Use machines can be skipped, its what should be done. Entry level HX will be miles better.
Except now the market has the Breville Dual Boiler. And I personally would buy that machine ten times out of ten, over a 1000-1200 HX machine. Id go, used Silvia with PID if I was forced to spend that amount, then Breville Dual Boiler, then QM67, then either what I have, or Vetrano 2B, then one of affordable profiling machines(Andreja Profile, Vesuvius) OR Linea Mini, then GS/3, Then Slayer. Thats my pricing tier. Grinders would be, Vario, then Maz Major/Anfim Super Camiano/Compak K10, Then a Kafatek Monolith flat. That leaves out a lot of brands, but thats my personal choices. You can swap out brands you like at similar spec at each level.
The irony of the tiers of espresso machines, is, you dont usually get to the high end until you are at the very least marginally competent, and usually pretty darn competent, at not just making a drinkable shot, but properly dialing in a coffee, keeping it dialed in throughout the bag, and then doing it again with an entirely different coffee the next week. So by the time you get to the easy to use machine and grinder, its a cakewalk.
You need the skills you develop over time, to really squeeze out the performance from entry level gear.
Anytime the Single Boiler/Dual Use machines can be skipped, its what should be done. Entry level HX will be miles better.
Except now the market has the Breville Dual Boiler. And I personally would buy that machine ten times out of ten, over a 1000-1200 HX machine. Id go, used Silvia with PID if I was forced to spend that amount, then Breville Dual Boiler, then QM67, then either what I have, or Vetrano 2B, then one of affordable profiling machines(Andreja Profile, Vesuvius) OR Linea Mini, then GS/3, Then Slayer. Thats my pricing tier. Grinders would be, Vario, then Maz Major/Anfim Super Camiano/Compak K10, Then a Kafatek Monolith flat. That leaves out a lot of brands, but thats my personal choices. You can swap out brands you like at similar spec at each level.
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- Posts: 514
- Joined: 9 years ago
Thanks for the thoughtful response... Oddly, I'm also looking at what deals I can get on a BDB and it seems very tempting. Apparently alot of "bad" reviews of the BDB were from the 900 model and not the 920 (which people seem to really really love).
- JmanEspresso
- Posts: 1462
- Joined: 15 years ago
Yeah it definitely seems like any issues people had, were ironed out with the new version.
Breville, outside of their espresso machines, has always been a brand that makes really neat stuff for the home kitchen. Just little features on their products that, arent life changing, but make the product just that little bit cooler to use. As an example, the little indicator thing that floats to the top of the drip tray to let you know its full. Life changing? No. But a nice little touch. And I believe it still has the little wheel built into the bottom that you engage with a lever, to easily spin the machine on the counter to fill it up with water.
Brevilles have always looked cool, but now that the machines are actually good machines, looking cool isnt the only good thing about them.
And it comes in three very nice colors. Not usually a guy that would choose a red machine, but the red BDB is shmexy.
There are other great machines on the market too. You wouldnt be dissapointed with the BDB, but the same is true about many other choices.
Breville, outside of their espresso machines, has always been a brand that makes really neat stuff for the home kitchen. Just little features on their products that, arent life changing, but make the product just that little bit cooler to use. As an example, the little indicator thing that floats to the top of the drip tray to let you know its full. Life changing? No. But a nice little touch. And I believe it still has the little wheel built into the bottom that you engage with a lever, to easily spin the machine on the counter to fill it up with water.
Brevilles have always looked cool, but now that the machines are actually good machines, looking cool isnt the only good thing about them.
And it comes in three very nice colors. Not usually a guy that would choose a red machine, but the red BDB is shmexy.
There are other great machines on the market too. You wouldnt be dissapointed with the BDB, but the same is true about many other choices.
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- Posts: 514
- Joined: 9 years ago
UPDATE - Bought the mini vivaldi II
Sette grinder gets here tomorrow. Now I got alot of reading to do so I know how the machine works, and maintenance/cleaning.
Thanks eveyrone
Sette grinder gets here tomorrow. Now I got alot of reading to do so I know how the machine works, and maintenance/cleaning.
Thanks eveyrone