Gicar Temporizzatore not working on Astoria Argenta

Equipment doesn't work? Troubleshooting? If you're handy, members can help.
epistolaire
Posts: 9
Joined: 7 years ago

#1: Post by epistolaire »

Congratulation everyone for the great and useful forum.

I have just acquired a 1998 Astoria Argenta AEP-2, more precisely the AEAP-SMAT, in what I believe was a decent condition. Before sinking too much time and money fully refurbishing it, I wanted to make sure that it was functional as it has been in storage for three years.

I over the last week, in an iterative start / stop of the machine manner, I have re-wired the machine and the pump, re-machined one of the steam valve seat, cleaned and rebuilt the vacuum brake valve, stripped down and rebuild one solenoid valve... got the machine fully function apart from the two Gicar Temporizzatore timer which have been giving me a hard time. I have confirmed that they are wired properly but only one of them triggers its solenoid valve for a fraction of a second once in a while when I press a shot bottom. The machine is connected on a 240 (i.e. phase 1.a and 1.b)


As I do not want to invest into new ones timer (i.e. over 600$ a pop) but I would like to keep it somewhat original; any idea if there is a common part that brakes inside those before I start de-soldering everything to rebuild them? There seems to be some corrosion and some printed circuit de-lamination (i.e. bubbles).


Since I am fairly acquainted with electronic, my other option will be to make a full user machine interface with a 2.8 inch adafruit touch screen based on an arduino uno board in lieu of the traditional timer. This would probably cost me about 100$ a piece but would allow me to add a PID on the boiler, volume and pre-infusion control, brew head temperature and pressure curve, etc. It is not as much the money as the time I will have to spend doing it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Luc

ira
Team HB
Posts: 5497
Joined: 16 years ago

#2: Post by ira »

Check the 5V supply. All the dead Gicars I've seen have had a problem with that. But I've never seen that controller. I've seen bad transformers and bad diode bridges. Sounds like a bridge lost a diode on the one that clicks occasionally. makes the unit reset every time a relay fires.

Ira

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epistolaire (original poster)
Posts: 9
Joined: 7 years ago

#3: Post by epistolaire (original poster) »

Thanks a lot for the advice. I will definitely check the power supply first but hope it is a diode since the power supply seems to be hard to come by as it is an 18V - 1,5 VA



Yes, the circuitry all appears to be running at 18V



Best regards,

ira
Team HB
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Joined: 16 years ago

#4: Post by ira »

That's a transformer, not a power supply. it's output should connect to a diode bridge, then a capacitor and then a voltage regulator. Possibly on the right side of the transformer in the first picture.

Ira

epistolaire (original poster)
Posts: 9
Joined: 7 years ago

#5: Post by epistolaire (original poster) »

Although the machine works well using the manual bottoms, I have not been able to repaire my two timers as of yet. I am currently trying to trouble shoot one of the and keep the second original as a reference. The transformer seems ok, I have check most of the diode and they seems ok (although I have not de-solder all of them), the transistors seem ok, the relay is good... currently, the power on the chips is 12 VDC and drops to 5 for a fraction of a second when any action bottom is pressed. The power supply seems to be built with a transformer (18 VAC), a single diode (4004), a condenser, a resistance (330), a zener diode (ZPY12v), and there is also a transistor beside it. My next step will be to test the zener.

ira
Team HB
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Joined: 16 years ago

#6: Post by ira »

If it drops to 5V, I'd guess something is wrong, maybe the capacitor(condenser) is dying

Ira

epistolaire (original poster)
Posts: 9
Joined: 7 years ago

#7: Post by epistolaire (original poster) »

I am still working my way on this. I bypassed the transformer and fed the timer from a 19 VDC and everything works find and it regulates the power to 12VDC and all the bottom works without power drop. When reverse the polarity, the internal remains at 12 and drops really slowly such as expected when reading a condenser voltage with a multimeter. So would expect the power supply diode and zener to be good. Since the issue only happens on AC and with every press of a bottom, I was thinking about a possible diode fault on the circuit that triggers the relay but I disconnected it and it still as the same issue. I have now de-soldered every apparent diode and they all test OK on my multimeter. I will most likely rebuild it one diode at the time to see if I can isolate the fault. The weird part is that both timer exhibit the same behavior. Hopefully both will have the exact same issue.

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ira
Team HB
Posts: 5497
Joined: 16 years ago

#8: Post by ira »

Can you post a picture of the board with the transformer so we can see all the rest of the parts. I want to see what's to the right and below the transformer.

Ira

epistolaire (original poster)
Posts: 9
Joined: 7 years ago

#9: Post by epistolaire (original poster) »

Top view of the power supply part.

Details of zener side


Details of the relay side.


Back side.

epistolaire (original poster)
Posts: 9
Joined: 7 years ago

#10: Post by epistolaire (original poster) »

Front HMI.


Control circuit. Note all diode are de-soldered at one end. The power supply comes in the six now emptied holes on the top left.


Back of control circuit.

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