Time regarding dose

December 5th, 2016, 6:43 am

Hi, still trying to get better shot (have some wonderful time to time..

) there is one thing i still not sure about :

As i've read the base of a good extraction should be 1 ml in 1 sec (14 Gr in 28 sec) so if i use let's say 17 gr, should i'll try to aim 28 or 34 sec ? i'll say 34 but want you Pro advice

Last thing also about time, if understand right, the more the cup is long (from ristretto to Lungo) the more the time of extraction is short ? i'am right ?

Thank's

#2: Post by **DeGaulle** » December 5th, 2016, 6:56 am

Time is really the last variable you should fix.
It is explained very well here:

#3: Post by **brianl** » December 5th, 2016, 10:23 am

Stephane_Paris wrote:Hi, still trying to get better shot (have some wonderful time to time.. ) there is one thing i still not sure about :

As i've read the base of a good extraction should be 1 ml in 1 sec (14 Gr in 28 sec) so if i use let's say 17 gr, should i'll try to aim 28 or 34 sec ? i'll say 34 but want you Pro advice

Last thing also about time, if understand right, the more the cup is long (from ristretto to Lungo) the more the time of extraction is short ? i'am right ?

Thank's

Like everything in espresso...it depends. You'll recognize patterns based on roasts and bean origins that will help you maximize the flavor but at the end of the day you need to learn how to adjust based on taste.

that said...my experiences...I rarely go above 30 seconds and get a good shot and I usually stay in the 20-27 range (regardless of dose). With the longer part used for 'harder' beans (meaning light roast or high elevation).

As for luongos, shorter is only better for me if there are no other apparent extraction flaws. A short, long, watery shot tastes terrible.

If you are using the Rok for espresso (I also own one), all of this goes out the window as that thing is completely different.

#4: Post by **RyanJE** » December 5th, 2016, 10:45 am

Check this out....

http://www.jimseven.com/2010/09/20/dial ... t-timings/

December 6th, 2016, 7:59 am

All Very interesting, a little complex too..

#6: Post by **DeGaulle** » December 6th, 2016, 8:45 am

Summarizing, start with fixing the dose of ground coffee, say 17 grams. Then select how much espresso you want out of that, say 34 grams. Start adjusting the grinder to get this in approx. 25 seconds. If it is not sweet enough try grinding finer, so the time increases, but stay with 17 gram in, 34 gram out.
If you find the drink is too strong and concentrated, go back and make 38 grams instead of 34 in about 25 seconds. Then again adjust your grind based on taste.

#7: Post by **Felice** » January 2nd, 2017, 5:51 pm

Somewhere on this site is something I believe is called Alan's rule, which makes clear the rationale for varying the length of time for the volume of the shot. Further it explains how to do it on the fly, like adjusting your time when it becomes clear your shot is faster or slower than optimal. Perhaps someone else can provide the link.

#8: Post by **Felice** » January 2nd, 2017, 5:55 pm

Ok, I'm back! Miss me? No, of course not, but here is a link to Al's rule (I was close.)

How Al's Rule Saved My Life

#9: Post by **DeGaulle** » January 3rd, 2017, 4:48 pm

Here is another link with a more visual approach:

Good Extraction, Good Espresso - Espresso Guide

Note that Al's rule is about shot volume vs extraction time with a reference point of 60 cc in 30 seconds. This holds Well for most traditional Italian blends, but not necessarily for lighter roasted Single origin coffees. Due to differences in crema between coffees, shot volume is no universal measure to define the size of a shot of espresso, but weight is; that is, weight of espresso in relation to the weight of ground coffee used (search for "Brew ratio").