E61 Group Espresso Machine: Detailed Interior Schematics

[lino]

As per Dan's request, I've made some display pics of the ProE CAD model I made of an E 61 assembly.

Transparent body, lever and valves in brew position

Transparent body, lever and valves in off position

Cross Section, off angle, lever and valves in brew position

Cross Section, lever and valves in brew position

Transparent body, Iso view, lever and valves in brew position

Transparent, Cross Section, off angle, lever and valves in brew position

Cross Section, lever and valves in off position

I'm also working on a movie of the moving parts (showing when you move the lever how the valves are actuated.... That's going slow)

I'll also try and do some close ups of the water path around the gicleur as well.

ciao

lino

[Designer]

Cool!! Really great!

[Abe Carmeli]

Lino,

Wow, I've never seen it as clear as I see it now.

[bruce]

Lino,

Great pictures! Your CAD model is very impressive. What version of ProE did you use? Would you be willing to share the file? I am getting trained on ProE in a couple of weeks- it would be great to have something FUN to practice on!

Bruce

[lino]

Lino,

Great pictures! Your CAD model is very impressive. What version of ProE did you use? Would you be willing to share the file? I am getting trained on ProE in a couple of weeks- it would be great to have something FUN to practice on!

Bruce

Hi Bruce,

This was modeled in 2001 and Wildfire2, currently it's all WF2

I'm afraid I'm a little reluctant to share the files right now... I'm still a little torn on the "open source" vs proprietary issue... For now I'm going to defer that decision...

That's great you're going to get ProE training next week! I agree that something fun to work on is a great idea. I recommend picking your own thing to model. You'll have more pride in it and you'll understand it better. It's very hard to work on a model behind someone else, since there are hundreds of ways to get the same end result. I am always frustrated when I have to work with a model that was made by my co-worker, he's a ProE whiz and I've been working with him for years, but we drive each other nuts when either of us has to work with the others work....


Anyway, best of luck to you , and I hope the training goes well. And now back to our regular espresso program...

On that note, I'm working on a thermal model of the grouphead... Given a fixed temp at the input (thermosyphon) what's the temp around the rest of the group.... (all steady state, can't analyze a "flush" right now)
I just got "thermal" yesterday, so I'm still learing the ropes... Dont expect anything fast... heh, or good.

ciao

lino

[schaffran]

At the risk of continuing to drag this OT, I really like the images--great job!

I've been driving Pro/E for 15! years <no really> and Wildfire for 8 months-- handy and powerful tools if you take the time to learn and play with them.

And back on topic, I just got an Anita a week ago--the cutaways are a really great way to see how the new toy works. I'll be looking for the thermal models. (What tool are you using for that?)

Again, great job and thanks!


Dean

[cannonfodder]

Makes me feel dated. The last CAD job I had I was using AutoCAD V8 I think. The solid modeling module was new. I used Sun SPARC 2 workstations for some of the modeling and they were the big bad box back then. Now my PDA is just about as fast.

Now onto something more pertinent, I see how the assembly works but I am missing the brew water input from the HX. The thermosyphon is obvious as well as the brew path but I cannot make out the HX input into the cam cavity. I am sure I am staring at it and just not recognizing it. Anyone want to help educate me?

[lino]

Now onto something more pertinent, I see how the assembly works but I am missing the brew water input from the HX. The thermosyphon is obvious as well as the brew path but I cannot make out the HX input into the cam cavity. I am sure I am staring at it and just not recognizing it. Anyone want to help educate me?

Most easily seen in the 3rd pic. The water path goes up thru 4 small holes (just above conical section of mushroom, you can see two in the x-sec). Into the "Nut" on the top, thru a small mesh filter, then down thru the gicleur, into the center cam area... I'll try to post another pic that makes it more clear tonight.

Regarding the Thermal FEA, I've got PTC's integrated module... We'll see if it's worth its salt (or price tag...)

ciao

lino

[espressoDOM]

wow... that is too much like what I do for a living... NICE CAD representation.... I need to get a home CAD software and a powerful scope

[another_jim]

These are wonderful!

[lino]

Here's the close up of the brew path.

The water entry should be obvious, then it travels up, thru the bright green section, thru the filter screen (transparent grey), down thru the gicleur (yellow), into the valve section (blue). The valve is shown closed.

When the orange cam rotates up (it's attached to the lever), it pushes up the valve seal (yellow) and brew water floods the cam area, then goes up towards the infamous allen screw. (Now it should be apparent why it's there as well. It would be hard to drill around that corner.)
Then down toward the dispersion disk.

Please pardon the jpg. I resized it and added the text with free software and it mangled some areas (particularly the reds), but you get what you pay for.

Also pardon my part names. Not sure I'm using the proper names, what I'm talking about should be clear though (I hope).


Anyway, does that make sense? Are any parts of the picture unclear?

Lemme know.

ciao

lino

[cannonfodder]

I see said the blind man.

[bruce]

lino,

I created a crude thermal model using your pictures. I am sure someone has done this, but I thought it would be fun to try. The results show a 10 degree (F) drop to the tip of the group head. Maybe there should be a bigger area hogged out like the patent drawing has shown! But how would you machine it? Has anyone measured temperatures on the exterior of the group. I do not have a thermocouple, but would like to know if I am in the ball park.

The most difficult thing for this type of thermal model is in calculating the convective coefficients (hc) for all of the surfaces. I have a spreadsheet for this that I have used before for electronics. This is also the greatest source of uncertainty. You really have to run the model once and then iterate, which I haven't done yet.

FYI- I used Designspace for the FEA, and Inventor to create the model. For a steady state thermal model like this, FEA is much simpler than for stress analysis- every node has only one degree of freedom.
My geometry is not very accurate- I scaled your drawing and took some measurements off my Zaffiro. I assumed free cutting brass for the E61 material properties. Is this correct?

Also, I assumed the water to be 200F, and stagnant. What is the flow rate of thermosyphon?

Regards,
Bruce

http://isotherm.blogspot.com/

[Ozark_61]

Great work! Is the mushroom you mentioned in the earlier post the yellow 'valve seal' the input for the HX?
Geoff

The water entry should be obvious, then it travels up, thru the bright green section, thru the filter screen (transparent grey), down thru the gicleur (yellow), into the valve section (blue). The valve is shown closed.

[lino]

Great work! Is the mushroom you mentioned in the earlier post the yellow 'valve seal' the input for the HX?
Geoff

The two HX inputs are the threaded holes on the right side of the pic with the black background. The "mushroom" is the is the part shown in red, that's not my name for it, that's the official name. So the thermosyphon moves water around in the ring shaped cavity outside the red part. When the valve is opened the water goes up first, then down the center.

Did I make better sense? I have a bad tendency to explain things as though you already knew what I was thinking...

ciao

lino

[HB]

Below is a picture of the "mushroom" from my espresso machine:



It's easy to unscrew and gives you an indicator of the scale buildup.

[Ozark_61]

With that and Dan's picture, it really makes sense, thanks! I didn't understand that the HX water becomes the brew water. I had thought the HX was only for heating the head and brew water was separate. The visual diagrams really help bring all the info in Dan's HX love article together. Too bad I don't have a wrench big enough to get my mushroom out so I can start tinkering...

The two HX inputs are the threaded holes on the right side of the pic with the black background. The "mushroom" is the is the part shown in red, that's not my name for it, that's the official name. So the thermosyphon moves water around in the ring shaped cavity outside the red part. When the valve is opened the water goes up first, then down the center.

Did I make better sense? I have a bad tendency to explain things as though you already knew what I was thinking...

ciao

lino

[altoCalgary]

Ozark,

Park Tools USA makes a 36 mm closed-head wrench (PARK HCW-4) for working on bicycle cranks and bottom brackets that fits perfectly on the large nut attached to the E61 'mushroom' of my Andreja.

http://www.parktool.com/products/...?cat=25&item=HCW-4 (I have no connection to Park Tools, other than using their tools on my mountain bikes.)

[kikuchio]

Here's the close up of the brew path.

<image>

The water entry should be obvious, then it travels up, thru the bright green section, thru the filter screen (transparent grey), down thru the gicleur (yellow), into the valve section (blue). The valve is shown closed.

When the orange cam rotates up (it's attached to the lever), it pushes up the valve seal (yellow) and brew water floods the cam area, then goes up towards the infamous allen screw. (Now it should be apparent why it's there as well. It would be hard to drill around that corner.)
Then down toward the dispersion disk.

Please pardon the jpg. I resized it and added the text with free software and it mangled some areas (particularly the reds), but you get what you pay for.

Also pardon my part names. Not sure I'm using the proper names, what I'm talking about should be clear though (I hope).


Anyway, does that make sense? Are any parts of the picture unclear?

Lemme know.

ciao

lino

most impressive

kikuchio

[CoffeeBeau]

Awesome, as beautiful in the inside as the E61 is on the outside.

Thanks for the great pictures.

Bob