Considering an upgrade from the Mazzer Mini E?

[Teme]

Hi all,

While I have been quite happy with my Mazzer Mini E, I have considered potentially going back to a grinder with a doser (even less clumping than with the Mini E). I haven't really decided anything and I may end up staying with the Mazzer at least for the time being, but I do have a few questions and I was wondering if anyone would happen to know the answers. The two candidates are the La Cimbali Max and the Macap MK7R. Size, or more specifically height is a major consideration for me. I would not want the grinder to me much taller than the Mini E is with the short hopper (around 17 inches) as I have just 20 inches of clearance below the cabinets.

La Cimbali Max
- will this take the shorter hopper from the La Cimbali Jr?
- the automatic function would be a bit of a pain, but I could use the on-off switch to override it in per shot use (I could also add a separate timer set to grind for a double - anyone know where one could get one of these?)

Macap MK7R
- how tall is the grinder without the hopper?
- will the MK7 take the M4 hopper?
- is the MK7 a manual or an automatic grinder or can one specify this?

Thanks in advance for your input,
Teme

[mgwolf]

Teme,
If it's the clumping that's getting to you, you could always use the inelegant, but VERY effective, Weiss Dist Technique with a yoghurt container of your choice. Cheaper, but less esthetic, than a new grinder. I'm sure you already know this, however Michael

[Teme]

Teme,
If it's the clumping that's getting to you, you could always use the inelegant, but VERY effective, Weiss Dist Technique with a yoghurt container of your choice. Cheaper, but less esthetic, than a new grinder. I'm sure you already know this, however Michael

Yep, I am aware of the WDT, but I'm really a fan

Thanks anyway!

Br,
Teme

[HB]

La Cimbali Max - Height, according to T.J., is 18.5 inches and the hopper capacity is one kilo versus 1.25 kilo for the Junior. I believe you can manually switch it on and off. I've not seen it in person, but Adding timer to grinder offers some suggestions on external timers.

Macap MXK - Height is 13 inches without the hopper. It will not accept the M4 hopper (throat is bigger). It's manual.

Macap M7K is a bit taller at about 14 1/2".

I'm mulling over the Mazzer Kony. Greg Scace loves it and Nick Cho, who just won the SERBC, told me he likes it better for grind than his Robur despite being slower. I believe it's around 16 inches tall without the hopper, so fitting it under standard kitchen cabinets will be challenging.

[cannonfodder]

The Cimbali JR and Mazzer Mini are close to the same size but you get larger burrs for the JR. While the JR has the 'auto hopper fill' for cafe use, I just use the switch. The power switch on the JR is located under the doser on the doser handle side. You can push the power on with your dosing thumb, dose, and turn off the power with your thumb while dosing. I really like my Jr. I don't see upgrading to anything other than a conical in the distant future. The Cimbali's are very easy to work on as well, something like 6 screws and the body lifts off the machine for easy service.

Yes, I know you are looking at the Max, not the JR, but the build is essentially the same, the height and flat-conic burrs are the only difference.





From LaCimbali's web page...


MAX

Body Silver version
Grinding start and stop automatic
Motor Single-phase
Motor output (W) 300
Grinding stones Flat - conic
Grinding stones' diameter (mm - in) 64 - 2.5"
Output per hour (approx. kg -lb.) 7,5 - 16.5
Coffee beans' hopper capacity (approx. Kg - lb) 1 - 2.2
Height x Depth x Width (mm - in) 470x360x225 - 18.5"x14.2"x8.9"


JR

Body Silver version
Grinding start and stop manual
Motor Single-phase
Motor output (W) 300
Grinding stones flat
Grinding stones' diameter (mm - in) 64 - 2.5"
Output per hour (approx. kg -lb.) 7,5 - 16.5
Coffee beans' hopper capacity (approx. gr - lb) 750 - 1.65
Height x Depth x Width (mm - in) 430x360x220 - 16.9"x14.2"x8.7"

[randomperson]

Teme, say it isn't so! My Mini E should arrive tomorrow, and you were a significant influence in my purchase decision!

Don't be giving me upgrade fever!

[another_jim]

In the price range you'e considering; you should also take a look at the Macap conicals; they look like they'll operate without a hopper (unlike the Kony)

[Teme]

La Cimbali Max - Height, according to T.J., is 18.5 inches and the hopper capacity is one kilo versus 1.25 kilo for the Junior. I believe you can manually switch it on and off. I've not seen it in person, but Adding timer to grinder offers some suggestions on external timers.

Macap M7K - Height is 13 inches without the hopper. It will not accept the M4 hopper (throat is bigger). It's manual.

I'm mulling over the Mazzer Kony. Greg Scace loves it and Nick Cho, who just won the SERBC, told me he likes it better for grind than his Robur despite being slower. I believe it's around 16 inches tall without the hopper, so fitting it under standard kitchen cabinets will be challenging.

The Mazzer Kony would be nice if it wasn't so huge. The Macap starts looking interesting if it is no more than an inch taller than the Mini E (13 vs 12 inches - both without the hopper). I also like the fact that it is manual.

I missed the thread on the timers. Thank you for posting the link. One of the digital darkroom timers would do the job and they don't seem to be very expensive on eBay...

Yes, I know you are looking at the Max, not the JR, but the build is essentially the same, the height and flat-conic burrs are the only difference.

I feel that the Junior would not be an upgrade to the Mini E in terms of the grind (both have 64mm flat burrs) whereas the other two potentially would be. Otherwise I have to agree that the Jr is appealing - the right size, a great grinder without a doubt and manual, too...

Teme, say it isn't so! My Mini E should arrive tomorrow, and you were a significant influence in my purchase decision!

Don't be giving me upgrade fever!

Congrats! I still think the Mini E is the best doserless grinder out there. It's just that I'm considering the alternatives now that the GS3 will be coming in. I am crazy? Probably

In the price range you'e considering; you should also take a look at the Macap conicals; they look like they'll operate without a hopper (unlike the Kony)

The MK7R has 68mm conical burrs (400W motor and 350 rpm) if I understand correctly. As I noted above, it is starting to look quite interesting if I just manage to find a suitable short hopper (which I would prefer). I have read some negative comments on the doser on this one, though (which seems odd as the smaller Macaps appear to receive positive feedback on their dosers).

Hmm... I have to give this some further thought.

Thank you and br,
Teme

[luca]

Has anyone had a look at the Compak K10? Apologies for not being with the "in" crowd in the US of A, but the rest of us get grinders other than Cimbali, MACAP and Mazzer, ya know ;P Tim Wendelboe likes it - might be a bit closer to home than Nick Cho for Teemu! Or, you could always get in touch with your local brasilia rep; the competition grinder is pretty sensational. And might actually be useable in a home environment if the fabled new exit spout is around.

Cheers,

Luca

[another_jim]

Has anyone had a look at the Compak K10? Apologies for not being with the "in" crowd in the US of A, but the rest of us get grinders other than Cimbali, MACAP and Mazzer, ya know ;P Tim Wendelboe likes it - might be a bit closer to home than Nick Cho for Teemu! Or, you could always get in touch with your local brasilia rep; the competition grinder is pretty sensational. And might actually be useable in a home environment if the fabled new exit spout is around.

I did a search on it after reading your blog. The dealers here show it as (yawn) just another large sized, 3/4 HP, 75 or so mm flat burr grinder; do you know anything they don't?

[Teme]

I did a search on it after reading your blog. The dealers here show it as (yawn) just another large sized, 3/4 HP, 75 or so mm flat burr grinder; do you know anything they don't?

Compak's website (http://www.compak.es) shows the K-10 Conic with 63mm conical burrs turning at 400 rpm (2/3 hp motor). But it is also on the large size (for me) at 25 inches tall.

I popped by Kontra Coffee (one of the local roasters) today and they happened to have a Macap MC7 for sale. It has the same body/housing as the MK7R and definitely appeared a lot taller than 13 inches. The Macap website says it's around 25 inches overall with the stock hopper and even though it is large, surely the hopper isn't 12 inches tall? I did not have a measure with me but the MC4 was dwarfed by the MC7. I'll go back with a measure just to be sure, but it looks that it may not be an option after all. The Cimbali Max is starting to look better especially if it can take the shorter hopper from the Cimbali Junior (can anyone confirm this?)- or more like the only alternative if I want to move away from flat burrs (I do not currently count the Versalab M3 as an alternative)...

Br,
Teme

[another_jim]

Ah, I get it ... they have a regular K-10 too; and that's the only one I saw on sale here.

The specs on the smaller and larger Macap conicals are on Chris coffee; just under 23 and 25 inches. The smaller hoppers from their other grinders may fit it, though. From the pics there, the hoppers on these things look taller than the rest of the grinder.

Anyway, I'm hoping my M3 holds together long enough so the prices on conicals come down a bit.

[Teme]

Ah, I get it ... they have a regular K-10 too; and that's the only one I saw on sale here.

The specs on the smaller and larger Macap conicals are on Chris coffee; just under 23 and 25 inches. The smaller hoppers from their other grinders may fit it, though. From the pics there, the hoppers on these things look taller than the rest of the grinder.

Anyway, I'm hoping my M3 holds together long enough so the prices on conicals come down a bit.

Ok. I hadn't noted that there were two different conical models from Macap. The hopper on both appears to be the same (holds 1.5 kg), so the 13 inches Dan indicated earlier does probably apply to the smaller one. I think the hopper fit from the M4 might still be a problem due to the larger throat, but I need to try and verify this...

By the way, for those who understand German, I found a comparison between the Innova conical and the Macap MXKR (the smaller one). If I understand correctly from the Babelfish translation, the chap prefers the taste from the Innova and notes that the Macap takes about 50% longer to grind than the likes of a Mazzer Mini, Macap M4 etc. Correct me if I am wrong. Here's the link: http://www.espressosorten.de/muehlen1.html

Br,
Teme

[HB]

The hopper on both appears to be the same (holds 1.5 kg), so the 13 inches Dan indicated earlier does probably apply to the smaller one.

Yes, that's what I should have said (corrected above). Chris Nachtrieb confirmed that the MKXR is 13" tall without the hopper the MK7R is a bit taller at about 14 1/2".

[another_jim]

the chap prefers the taste from the Innova and notes that the Macap takes about 50% longer to grind than the likes of a Mazzer Mini, Macap M4 etc. Correct me if I am wrong. Here's the link: http://www.espressosorten.de/muehlen1.html

He thinks the Innova produces a softer, less bitter, but less taste differentiated shot than the Macap, which he describes as harder, more bitter, and more nuanced. However, he did not state what coffee he used. I found that low grade Brazils, i.e. your basic Italian bar blend, tastes absolutely horrid with the M3, and a lot better on the Mini, since anything that will blur the taste is to be desired. His result could be a case of that. However, the Trespade burrs on the Innova (Lux, Quaha, Pavoni, etc), produces excellent shots when new, better to my palate than small burr commercials like the Mini. This means the comparison isn't as absurd as it sounds

He notes the conical Macap has closer grind steps than the other stepped Macaps; but is outraged that the upper grindstone carrier will torque violently if one adjusts it while it's grinding (releasing the grind lock completely loosens the wheel). Otherwise, he says it's built like a tank. He says it's 33% slower than the big grinders with no specification whether he's talking Jolly or Major class. Either way, it's at least as fast as a regular Mini, although it could be slower than the Mini E. He noted that the exit chute filled with grinds and needed to be cleared. Slow grinding and choked chutes are common problems on low speed conicals, so this is not too much of a surprise.

He liked the Macap doser, which he says cleans out well; he did say it clacked very loudly on the lever return.

He noted that the grinds from the Macap were a lot cooler than from the Innova.

He's also may have had a little too much rock and roll on his high end hearing, since he describes the Innova as no more noisy than commercial grinders; whereas my various Trespade grinders reminded me of air raid sirens.

[Teme]

Thank you Jim! Sounds like you are pretty fluent in German?

Regarding the comments on the stepped adjustments, I think the Macap is also available with the stepless adjustment (like their smaller grinders). Unfortunately, it appears that the conicals are automatic only.

I realise that Cimbali Max is also automatic only, but I am starting to lean towards it. I've been trying via several channels to find out regarding the hopper issue on the Cimbali. No word on that yet...

Br,
Teme

[another_jim]

Thank you Jim! Sounds like you are pretty fluent in German?

Yeah, I grew up there. The piece was pretty colloquial, so the auto-translators would have probably hashed it quite badly

[luca]

I realise that Cimbali Max is also automatic only, but I am starting to lean towards it. I've been trying via several channels to find out regarding the hopper issue on the Cimbali. No word on that yet...

If you do go that way, please let me know how it turns out (not that you wouldn't post/blog about it ;P)

Our Cimbali importer has been somewhat unresponsive, but the Max seems to be relatively cheap down here. Personally, I doubt that they actually import them and the ads that I've seen from the resellers seem to be copied and pasted from somewhere ... might well be entirely incorrect information. But if it's really good, it might be worthwhile checking out.

Cheers,

Luca

[gscace]

La Cimbali Max - Height, according to T.J., is 18.5 inches and the hopper capacity is one kilo versus 1.25 kilo for the Junior. I believe you can manually switch it on and off. I've not seen it in person, but Adding timer to grinder offers some suggestions on external timers.

Macap MXK - Height is 13 inches without the hopper. It will not accept the M4 hopper (throat is bigger). It's manual.

Macap M7K is a bit taller at about 14 1/2".

I'm mulling over the Mazzer Kony. Greg Scace loves it and Nick Cho, who just won the SERBC, told me he likes it better for grind than his Robur despite being slower. I believe it's around 16 inches tall without the hopper, so fitting it under standard kitchen cabinets will be challenging.

Cimbali Max in the US is supposed to come with the conical / flat burrsets, but the rotational speed is 1400 RPM. What's up with that? As Dan said, I have a Kony and it is slow, but a very excellent conical grinder. Takes 15 secs to grind 18 g of coffee. By contrast, the Robur, which I also own, takes 6 seconds to do the same thing. Robur rotational speed is 500 RPM (60 Hz) and the burrset is larger in diameter than the Kony, so the cutting surface speed is higher than the Kony's. If you are in a 50 Hz country the rotational speed gets reduced to 417 Hz, which is prolly better. To tell the truth I can't tell any difference in grinding quality between the Robur and the Kony. I can, however, tell a big difference between conical and flat-burr grinders. If you are considering moving on from the mini-E, I would suggest going the conical route for sure. Jim Schulman has insight on conicals as well, since he owns one of those Versalab abortions. FWIW, I own a mini-e as well as the two conicals. There is no comparison. The mini-e is grudgingly given counter space since I need a decaf grinder at home.

-Greg

[gscace]

Has anyone had a look at the Compak K10? Apologies for not being with the "in" crowd in the US of A, but the rest of us get grinders other than Cimbali, MACAP and Mazzer, ya know ;P Tim Wendelboe likes it - might be a bit closer to home than Nick Cho for Teemu! Or, you could always get in touch with your local brasilia rep; the competition grinder is pretty sensational. And might actually be useable in a home environment if the fabled new exit spout is around.

Cheers,

Luca

Compak grinders were the grinder sponsor of the USBC, I believe. It's an interesting machine, and possibly just as good as the Robur or Kony. I can't say because I haven't used one.

-Greg