Pavoni Frothing and pressure regulation

[Cappa1]

So cool to find a dedicated lever forum! First time here - have had a Pro Millenium edition for a year and have been learning the gradual nuances of this beautifully finicky machine. So cappuccino is the drink I'm trying to master, and I'm in search of the elusive velvety microfoam. I always blow a couple rounds of steam off to get the boiler running, but I find I hardly get any foam at all unless the wand tip is just barely submerged in the milk, usually I can see the tip of the wand. If I try and bury the wand 1/2 inch like the froth guides recommend I just end up with warm swirled milk. I can get some foam that's thick if I keep the wand tip just barely in the milk, but I get bigger bubbles, and its smooth but not velvety like I've had from my favorite espresso bar. Any tips to froth like a pro with this machine? Would love to be able to work some latte art into my cappuccinos!

Also notice that the pressure seems to be right around 1.1 bar, it this acceptable, or should it be lower, and is this adjustable?

Any tips would be great and hello to all fellow leverheads!

[cannonfodder]

They will produce very nice microfoam with practice. I actually plugged one of the three holes on my machine to slow it down a little, but I have the big boiler machine.

You should start with the tip just below the surface of the milk, about where the tip/pipe seam is. Open your steam valve, and then slowly lower the pitcher until the very tip is just under the surface. You will get a 'psss... pssst...pssss' sound if you are in the zone. Too high and it sounds more like a garden hose in a bucket. You will have to lower the pitcher (stretch the milk) as the foam forms, you need to float the tip just at the surface until you hit about 80F, then raise the pitcher and submerge the tip about a 1/2-3/4 inch below the surface.

You may have to play with the wand placement and depth to get the swirling correct. It works best for me if I have the pitcher at a slight angle and the wand almost touching the side of the pitcher. Once you hit 138F turn off the steam, let the pressure die then remove the pitcher. Don't try to pull the pitcher out as you turn off the steam valve. If you do you will blow a couple of big bubbles into the milk.

Give the pitcher a couple of downward thumps on the table, swirl, thump, swirl, pour, or at least that what works for me. You may want to practice with water until you find the agitation sweet spot. I have one particular spot that works best, a little too deep or too much angle and the swirl goes flat.

[SF_Marty]

Cannon, did you plug one of the holes yourself? If so, how did you do it? (Is yours reversible?)

I have a La Pavoni and I am making very, very good espresso.



My milk work is...meh...I can get good caps but I can't do Latte art with my stuff. I use a small pitcher (maybe 5-6" high and 4" wide) with about 2 inches of milk (2% and whole mixed) I do get a nice 1-2 inches of FOAM cap material but the milk under that is simply heated milk, no suspended microbubbles like I also get at my good local shops. I'd like to say that the Pavoni with it's single boiler is the culprit cause I can't handle the darn thing right. I'd just like to impress my girlfriend and pour her a leaf on the top of her coffee...Heh.

Thanks,
Chris

[bobby yarrow]

I'm in week 2 with my europiccola, and while it's my first 3-hole machine I'm finding it relatively easy to get consistent microfoam. For me, the trick with microfoam has always been to get the milk fat level up above 4% -- I start with whole milk, and add a good slosh of heavy cream.

Your stretch might not be high enough. When I'm stretching, I can see three dents where the steam is hitting the surface of the milk -- the steam holes are completely out of the milk I guess. I get a very rapid stretch, and if anything I'm trying to keep the bubbles small and keep the whole thing from becoming a soap-bubble mess. I stretch only til about 80 degrees (F, naturally), and then keep the wand in the center of the pitcher, just below the 'hiss line.' If I don't manage to very quickly get a whirlpool or standing wave, I'll cheat the wand a bit to one side to start the rotation, and then bring it back to center. Around 110 degrees, I start dunking the wand all the way to bottom of the pitcher, and then slowly raise and lower it til I'm approaching 140. I stop immediately at 140, as I seem get a little carry-over with this machine . . . could probably even stop at 135.

When things go bad, I end up with a pitcher that's a little too thick, but never hard foam over warm milk. I still haven't figured out how to get a microfoam thin enough for the kind of latte art you see, but I certainly end with a full pitcher of very velvety microfoam.

[cannonfodder]

Plugging one of the holes is easy, and reversible. Take one plain brown, round toothpick and push it into one hole, then break it off. If you want to remove it, you just unscrew the tip and push the little plug out.

Sometimes the pitcher you use makes a big difference as well. I believe most latte art masters use straight sided pitchers; both of my pitchers are bell. Eventually you get enough practice that you can use almost anything; I tend to use a Styrofoam cup at work. Pouring is not ideal, but I don't have to wash my pitcher. I just toss it in my trash can.

Bobby is also correct that higher fat milk produces finer foam. I use plain old 2%; skim will produce enormous amounts of foam because of the low fat content. Whole milk tends to produce less volume, but very heavy and silky foam with fewer large bubbles. I was using whole milk when I started and moved down to 2%. The more subtle blends can get squashed with all of the heavy high fat milk.

I stop stretching at 80F; I find the foam produced over that point to be much stiffer and difficult to pour. I kill the heat at 138F and carry over takes me to about 145F. Over 150 and the milk is scalded and taste suffers in my opinion.

You want a real challenge, try frothing 4-5oz of milk with a 4 hole tip on a 12 liter boiler. It takes me 5 seconds to go from 40 to 80 in a frozen pitcher with the valve maybe 1/4 open, another 4-5 seconds to finish heating at full force. One mistake and I have dish soap bubble milk, or have to change because I blew milk all over myself.

Bottom line, it just takes lots of practice. It was several months before I could produce good microfoam with any regularity.

[Paul L]

Cappa, there is really good advice posted on here and I can only support it. I'll add that it took me 60 days continuous to crack the frothing dilemma on my Pavoni. Anyone who gives up thinking it's the machine has to go back to the drawing board I'm afraid.

I use semi-skimmed (2%) for the same reason as already posted, so that I don't mask the coffee. I also get a fast and furious surf going but with micro-millimetric control that you just develop which gives you a feel for the effect of the slightest movement you make. Once stretched, I then apply the up and down plunging that Pavoni shows on their site, I place a finger against the jug to guide me on temperature. I also bang and swirl which really helps but only after I have let the milk settle. How do I this without flattening the crema on the shot? Easy, I froth the milk first and then pull the shot, then bang and swirl and pour.

Frothing is one of those frustrating things and I suspect has to be relearned with every machine change. It's a bit like cycling or swimming though, once you have learned on your particular machine it's hard to not be able to do it if you know what I mean. I guess it's a shame that all the videos out there seem to be about latte art rather than examples of technique to use on a particular machine. Videos showing tamping, frothing, grinding routines would probably be useful although maybe all this already exists in the resource area or somewhere else.

[Cappa1]

Wow......great pointers, thanks everyone. I know it will take some dedication, but I enjoy a good challenge........and the payoff of a fine cup is always worth it! Just got 2 different espresso blends from a local roaster, so will give it a whirl tomorrow. And a last question........ can anyone explain the pre-infusion step I've been reading about a little better?

[cannonfodder]

A video, hmmm. If memory serves, I did one while frothing some milk with the intention of posting it one day, but I do not know where it went. I believe it was pretty big (7 or 8 meg). A full grind to pour would be enormous.

Preinfusion. That essentially primes the puck. The coffee swells as it absorbs the water under low pressure. It gives you an even saturation, which lends itself to an even extraction. It makes the coffee 'happy' and ready to give up the goodness. It releases more water soluble compounds. You get a nice, rich cup but too much exposure to water for too long (over extraction) gives you a bitter and harsh cup. It is a fine line but when you walk it, life is good.

In the instructions, they tell you to raise the lever until you get a couple of drops from the portafilter. If you get coffee drops prior to pulling the lever, you grind needs fined up, a lot. I, and most other folks, raise the lever and give it a 10 count prior to starting the pull. I pull until I get the first couple of drops, raise the lever for another 2 count and pull the full shot.

[srobinson]

What is confusing you on preinfusion. We have had a couple good threads on that and some interesting discussions on a couple different techniques.

[martinSWE]

When it comes to microfoam, I've found that giving the milk a few good knocks to the table before pouring is essential. Knock and shake. Repeat. Then, for the pour - lean the cup/glass slightly (like when pouring a pint of lager) and pour quickly, filling it up to 3/4. Halt a few secs, them pour any additional milk.
By using fairly fat milk, the above mentioned steaming techniques and a good pour you will get a nice, rich microfoam to play with.

[Cappa1]

Thanks Cannonfodder once again for the detailed explanation - will try preinfusing in the morning

Wanted to let everyone know I had a breakthrough moment this morning with a 5 bean blend from a newly discovered local roaster- I'll preface this with saying I've never had a straight espresso shot that didn't have a pronounced bitterness, or off flavor. The shot this morning tasted incredibly smooth yet bold. Since I love a good Capp in the morning I whipped up some froth, using my newfound pointers and voila - probably the best cup I've had in about 6 months! My family was just as excited - begging for more. Think I'm finally getting in touch with my inner chrome peacock- Thanks again everyone

[cannonfodder]

Keep in mind that preinfusion is a bit more complicated, that was my grossly over simplified description. As Steve points out, there are much more in-depth discussions on pre infusion if you want to know the mechanics behind it.

Glad you are getting better results. After another 6 months of practice, you will wonder why you thought what you are making now was good.

I also find that my machine tends to like a blend tailored for hotter extractions. These guys tend to run a bit hot so most dark roasts twinge toward a bitter edge.

[Cappa1]

I will definitely do some study on the pre-infusion. I tried to do a search previous to sending this message, but the only technique I found was the painfully long 1.5 minute pre-infuse experiment. I knew there was better posts, just didn't have a chance to do an in-depth search. Cannonfodder- what kind of blend would be more tailored to a high extraction? Certain origins of beans or just the roast? I tried some beans a couple weeks ago a friend brought me called D'arte, I think it was a Northern Italian style espresso. It was much darker than anything I would think of using, almost like a french roast, but the beans didn't smell charred, and the richness was almost too strong, but not bitter. So I'm getting my expectations blown on daily basis......I am amazed how I can really taste the difference in each kind of new espresso. BTW where did you get those awesome clear cups on your avatar?

[HB]

I tried to do a search previous to sending this message, but the only technique I found was the painfully long 1.5 minute pre-infuse experiment.

You may find the improbably named Fellini does espresso thread interesting.

[Cappa1]

interesting indeed Dan. Everything I read at this point is leading me forward on the path to ultimate espresso. I can see why this is an addictive habit........besides the caffeine, theres just so much to discover. Will have to rent the rehearsal........love old movies, and it doesn't get anymore authentic italian than Fellini-

[SF_Marty]

Eureka! plugged one of the holes on my Europiccola steam wand and am now doing much, MUCH better on creating microfoam. I'm convinced they should have never put 3 holes on that thing to begin with. I am getting a wonderful swirl now.

Thanks for the Toothpick solution.

Chris Martin
SF, CA

[trembldm]

Couldn't agree more! I plugged the third hole in my Europiccola last night and the swirl/turbulence I could create was impressive. I made my first attempt at Latte Art this morning. I could use a little more practice...

This is one of the better tips I've seen for this machine. Highly recommended.

Dave

[cannonfodder]

I will definitely do some study on the pre-infusion. I tried to do a search previous to sending this message, but the only technique I found was the painfully long 1.5 minute pre-infuse experiment. I knew there was better posts, just didn't have a chance to do an in-depth search. Cannonfodder- what kind of blend would be more tailored to a high extraction? Certain origins of beans or just the roast? I tried some beans a couple weeks ago a friend brought me called D'arte, I think it was a Northern Italian style espresso. It was much darker than anything I would think of using, almost like a french roast, but the beans didn't smell charred, and the richness was almost too strong, but not bitter. So I'm getting my expectations blown on daily basis......I am amazed how I can really taste the difference in each kind of new espresso. BTW where did you get those awesome clear cups on your avatar?

The cup is a Bodum double wall. No hot handles or cup walls, they stay nice and cool to the touch but keep their contents nice and hot, or cold depending on what you put in them.

A higher temp blend, the generic answer is lighter roasts but that is not always the case. Every roaster has a recommended brew temperature. I would look around for something that works well in the 200-203 range. Most of those blends tend to be pretty bright and acidic. A darker roast will work just fine. My suggestion is based on the machines tendency to run hot; the higher temp blend may be a little more forgiving if you are having problems with burnt shots.

Glad that the old 'toothpick in the steam tip' trick helped out. Once you get the hang of it, try removing the plug and run all 3 holes. It will do it but is a bit more challenging.

[ant]

I would prefer not to do the toothpick trick.

-there is a piece of wood constantly absorbing and re-absorbing old milk in your steamtip- what about bacteria issues?
-if the wood bit dislodges, gets into your drink, and then gets stuck in your throat? Or worse, someone else's throat? Isn't there a possibility of litigation?

Sorry to spoil everyone's fun, but these are my honest concerns.

[cannonfodder]

Those are all valid concerns.

The high temp in the steam wand will probably kill off any bacteria. The wood will swell because of the water in the steam wand which helps prevent it from dislodging and absorbing milk. I wipe off my steam wand after use so the milk does not have time to saturate the small piece of wood.

I have been using it for a year now and have not had any issues. Your concerns are well advised and anyone trying this little mod should take those risks into consideration.

Edit...

You break off the toothpick or other instrument of destruction, off at the steam tip. Don't leave the entire thing attached.