Packing & shipping tips for a 40lbs. espresso machine

[oofnik]

I just bought what appears to be an older model re-branded Wega Mininova on eBay. If anyone would like to confirm the model, here's a picture. From the description, the seller doesn't seem to be all too familiar with espresso machines. I would just like to help him get the machine packed up safely to avoid any headaches (cracked HX, broken fittings, etc). It will be going from Nebraska to Georgia, about 1,000 miles, through UPS. Thank you everyone.

[another_jim]

Mummy wrap the machine and any loose parts in thin bubble wrap, about 1.5 inchs in depth, so it'll withstand getting stabbed by any sharp implements, then double box with lots of beads in each box so it can withstand getting dropped out of the back of the truck several times. That should, with a few prayers thrown in, and barring any great new innovations in package handling, UPS proof it.

[Kristi]

drain as much water as you can from the boiler. Look at the temps to see if you need some RV-potable water line antifreeze (or vodka). Probably want to leave steam and hot water valves closed - mine were left open and when I got it there was a bit of moisture in the box, but none in the boiler.

[HB]

Most importantly, insist the buyer take it to a packing store on your dime. It wouldn't hurt to get the name of the manager of the store and call them. Seriously, five minutes on the phone could save you weeks of aggravation filing damage claims. Ship the loose items separately. They will otherwise interfere with a quality pack job and potentially rattle around causing damage. Double box, solid core foam, and Instapak cushions if they have them.


What you can expect from UPS (Getting to know the Izzo Alex)

For more specific suggestions, see Shipping Silvia.

Probably want to leave steam and hot water valves closed - mine were left open and when I got it there was a bit of moisture in the box, but none in the boiler.

I would rather have some moisture in the packing than risk frozen water busting the lines. I'm not certain, but the Mininova might have a drain plug on the side. We can assume that this machine will be exposed to freezing temperatures during the long drive from Nebraska to Georgia. Get the water out. Michael Teahan swears by the volka as antifreeze trick, but I've never tried it. Putting your faith in a seller to properly package and drain an espresso machine for a winter shipment... I would be worried.

[Everman]

I recently sold my Silvia and successfully got it to the other side of the country. I double boxed it with the outer box full of peanuts. Wrapped the machine in large bubble wrap and dumped in peanuts, firmly secured it with some pieces of hard foam.

Just make sure it's padded well and can not move around even if tipped on its side. Also drain as much water as you safely can.

[Kristi]

This came from Montana weighing 70 lbs - I lucked out - no damage, but it was super well packed - four 1" planks of styrofoam on all sides, double extra heavy cardboard wall, and bailing twine under the duck tape. Knobs and feet had been removed and were sent in the other box.



Assume your box will sit upside down, and be thrown around.

When the UPS guy was bringing them up, the grinder box fell off the cart and actually bounced, it was so well packed. No damage to either unit from shipping. But again it was due to overkill packing, AND, UPS being kind.

44lb grinder box:



I had had easily 20 emails with the guy discussing shipping and prep.

[mattwells]

I just bought what appears to be an older model re-branded Wega Mininova on eBay. If anyone would like to confirm the model, here's a picture. From the description, the seller doesn't seem to be all too familiar with espresso machines. I would just like to help him get the machine packed up safely to avoid any headaches (cracked HX, broken fittings, etc). It will be going from Nebraska to Georgia, about 1,000 miles, through UPS. Thank you everyone.

Glad (for you) that I canceled my snipe on that one. I think you are correct about the model. I am packing up a machine right now. Styrofoam around the machine in the first box and a mixture of big and small bubble wrap and the big air cushions between the first box and the second. Boiler drained and then filled with some everclear as an antifreeze (and the everclear run through the HX as well). I am trying to cover all the bases as well. Let me know how the machine turns out.

[espressme]

To all the great advice above, I would add: Place the unit into a large plastic bag and then another before packing. You can not believe where the tiny bits of plastic from packaging can get into. They can interfere with switches and other things.

Also, I was told by a shipping claims person that I should have packed for four foot drops. I would amend this to 'pack for repeated 6 foot drops.'

Some shippers routinely deny damage claims by saying that the item was poorly packed!

Remember, Insure for value of shipment + shipping, not the $100 of normal insurance.

Shipping companies' stores are not always a place to have the items packed! Many of their personnel are poorly trained into the " throw into box with peanuts" mentality. They have no idea what strength of box to use or how to package heavy items. It is easier to settle claims when the shipment was packed by the shipping company's Store.

Again, not all are bad but talking with the packager does help.

Did I see the suggestion: Give the packager this thread URL?

My best regards
richard

[DigMe]

It is easier to settle claims when the shipment was packed by the shipping company's Store.

Not always!

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1932143,00.asp

bc

[espressme]

Not always!
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1932143,00.asp
bc

Thou speaketh truth! Some folks swear by JedEx. A reminder also that the Upshipper's Store, if used as a safe drop for your package, charges a goodly amount for the service! It is best to have a local business friend take the package for you.

Having been through a similar go 'round with Puce over a five week period where their left hands said one thing and the next phone message was irate squawk from an unavailable supervisor and another number to call, where the left hand didn't have a clue =endless recursive iterations ending with claim denied because "you refuse to quit your job to be home any of 6 maybe days we might want to make an appointment to see the remains." Fortunately I retained the object and the shipper and I figured out a way to even out the damages.
Best of luck
richard

[oofnik]

Thanks everyone for all the excellent advice. I emailed the seller and I'm waiting to hear back from him so I can help him package it properly. I think what I'll tell him is to turn the machine on until it is up to temp, make sure the reservoir is empty, run the pump until water stops coming out of the brew group, then open the hot water valve until no more water comes out, then open the steam valve until steam stops coming out. Then let it cool down, put it in two plastic bags, wrap with several layers of bubble wrap, put it in the box with peanuts, put the small box in a bigger one full of peanuts too, and duct tape it all around with reinforced tape. Sound good? And the only loose parts I see are the portafilters, is it ok to wrap those up and put them in the space between the group and the drip tray as shown in the pic, but make sure they are secured of course?
Matt - did you sell the Expobar? If you don't mind could you take pics while you're packing it, if you haven't finished yet.. that would be awesome.

[HB]

When the UPS guy was bringing them up, the grinder box fell off the cart and actually bounced, it was so well packed. No damage to either unit from shipping. But again it was due to overkill packing, AND, UPS being kind.

Fantastic packing job!

It's perhaps obvious, but there's also a big difference between the packing demands among the machines mentioned in this thread. A 25 pound Silvia will escape harm more easily than a 45+ pound semi-commercial. And for the really big boys, a mini pallet is worth the extra money. That's how Chris' shipped the Elektra A3:

Sound good?

Isn't Nebraska well below freezing this time of year? I would prefer the machine's boiler be as close to empty as possible, not just purged via the water tap by steam pressure. Check if there's a boiler drain plug.

[oofnik]

I'll ask him to look for one. It's very difficult to give specific instructions about how to do something with a machine you're not familiar with to a person who's even less familiar with it.. I wish he'd email me back!

[DigMe]

Thou speaketh truth! Some folks swear by JedEx. A reminder also that the Upshipper's Store, if used as a safe drop for your package, charges a goodly amount for the service! It is best to have a local business friend take the package for you.

The point, though, was that introducing a third party into it also can add complications. I've read or been told more than once that the best place to have shipped out from if you have to claim insurance is from a UPS customer service counter (NOT a UPS Store...two different things).

For ground shipping though I do prefer FedEx. Their ground service has typically been 25 to 30% cheaper than UPS ground and it's usually as fast or faster for me.

bc

[oofnik]

Well, I have an update. Some good news and some bad news.
The good news is, the machine works! The bad news, well... two parts. One, it's filthy, two, it arrived in more parts and pieces than I think it was intended to be.
Apparently the seller completely ignored everything I discussed with him about packing. He chose to place the machine in a big, thin-walled cardboard box, toss in the portafilters somewhere, insert a few crumpled up sheets of packing paper, and send it off. No bubble wrap, no secured anything, big open spaces.. What the hell was this guy thinking!! I am very upset with this.

So now, I've got the working innards of a Wega Mininova sitting on a bent steel frame and a busted up, irreparable top. Wonderful. Oh, and I removed the crusty, hardened remains of the old head gasket and screen. I needed a drill, some wood screws, a screwdriver, and a pair of pliers. Check it out.

And the bent frame:


I'll get to work on disassembly this weekend. I'll strip it to the frame and try to bend it back out. And I'll also have a little chat with the seller.

[espressme]

Hi Guy,
I hope you have the packaging! and photos.

Save all your emails from and to the seller.

You may still stiff him for $100 for the UPS claim. That is normal insurance.

1st Text message the "gentlefolk" and say the thing was bashed in shipping and what would they wish to do about it.

Then work with the person and keep all of the emails on the *bay server ( Messages).

Then if push comes to crud, you have the *bay / Haypal handle to jerk the jerk,

I was able to negotiate with a seller and got most of the money back and kept the machine. Cost more to ship back than they could get out of a resale

Good luck
Richard

[DaveC]

Mummy wrap the machine and any loose parts in thin bubble wrap, about 1.5 inchs in depth, so it'll withstand getting stabbed by any sharp implements, then double box with lots of beads in each box so it can withstand getting dropped out of the back of the truck several times. That should, with a few prayers thrown in, and barring any great new innovations in package handling, UPS proof it.

I really was going to post this, before I saw the end result of the sellers shipping.

I don't understand UPS proof Jim. If your local carriers are anything like ours in the UK, then nothing can be "courier" proofed. The better the packaging the bigger the challenge

On a more serious note though with the larger machines and bigger boilers, the sheer internal mass can mean that even when they are packed really well, the boiler itself can move internally! (happened with some heavy machines a while back, we estimated a 3 metre drop). In the case of this particular machine, it looks like really bad luck (carelessness) that it arrived the way it did, BUT my suspicious and devious mind does ponder one small point! Was the machine damaged in the first place and the seller then inadequately packed hoping that more damage would result and disguise the existing damage. In the e-bay picture you posted, it might be the angle it was taken at, but it looks twisted to me in that shot. The left side shows a largish gap where the front panel joins the side panel and the top left of the machine looks low.

Ahh...i'm just suspicious.

In either case the item looks as if it might be significantly "not as described" in e-bay terms, so a paypal payment reversal is in order.

[2xlp]

Not always!

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1932143,00.asp

bc

UPS once broke my computer on a cross country move. I don't mean an electronic break, I mean a physical - the case and motherboard were shattered. I have no idea how they managed that. I had no idea it was possible.

They took the machine for an insurance valuation, and were supposed to return it within two days. After 4 days I got in a fight with customer service. After 2 weeks they admitted they lost it during valuation, and would send me a full insurance claim. A week later, nothing. Thats when I got a friend of the family - a lawyer - involved.

One phonecall + a letterhead faxt later, and they overnight me a check. The next day they brilliantly call and say "oh we found it. but we value it at $400 damage, not $800. don't cash that check. we should have the broken computer to you tomorrow."

I politely tell them great -- but we resolved the situation and I'm cashing the $800 right now. I expect to have the computer in my possession the next day so i can pull my files off it. once i do that and blank the drive they can have the machine. we argue, i call my lawyer. she has me call back and just say "if i don't see the computer the next day, i'll file charges for data theft (the valuation was for the computer hardware, not software)." and "I'm not talking to customer service anymore. i want someone in the legal department." I had the machine the next day with a formal apology.

I've been weary of UPS ever since. Though i tried fedex ground a few years later, and had an even worse experience: they delivered a $1200 computer to the same street address / different zipcode + town 10miles away. The shipper was great and sent a replacement, as miraculously they couldn't seem to find whomever signed for the package. Then the driver delivered the replacement computer... to the same place. I wasn't happy with that, neither was the shipper , who ended making $2400 in claims. How much do you want to bet someone at Fedex got two shiny new computers as a bonus ? I finally got a third computer on my doorstep the next day via UPS overnight -- 2 weeks after ordering it. annoying.

[jesawdy]

I am a fairly trusting person, but DaveC's comments had me going back to look at the original picture. Not knowing if there were other pictures, in that original picture the machine does in fact look a bit distorted. It is hard to tell if it is a optical illusion or just perspective, or if in fact something is not quite right. Good luck with getting things set straight.

If worse comes to worse, carpe diem,.... straighten the frame and look into making a custom shell (the original was a bit lacking in the looks department anyhow).

[mattwells]

What a nightmare...if you paid with paypal, you should start your claim now.