Overfilling leads to no head space

[Elbasso]

The importance of leaving enough head space for the coffee to expand during pre-infusion has been thourougly discussed. This also goes for overfilling the basket and doing a fancy distribution move before tamping. Applying both things seems to be impossible however. I have tried four different double baskets but no matter what I try, as soon as I start overfilling and distributing, there's simply not enough head space after tamping. Even when doing a Schomer with a bend finger shave off in the end, it still leads to too little head space. Same goes for tamping as hard as I can. The only way that I can imagine for this to work might be going to a bigger synesso double basket or using a triple basket. Is this correct or have I overlooked something?

Cheers,

Bas

[HB]

Why do you want to overfill the basket? The stock basket for the Andreja Premium easily accommodates 17 grams. If you want more than that, try a deeper double basket or triple basket.

[Elbasso]

Why do you want to overfill the basket?

I was refering to overfilling before distributing. This is needed for Stockfleth's and Schomer distribution isn't it? After finishing with either I am not able to generate enough headspace. Sadly, I cannot use the original basket because I destroyed it with a green scrubby after (mis)reading and applying Schomer's cleaning routine

Are you able to generate the headspace with a double that holds max 15gr?

Cheers,

Bas

[HB]

If I want to updose, I gently tap the portafilter while dosing to settle the grounds at slightly past the mid-fill point. The puck's surface is about even with the midpoint of the basket ridge, which comes out to around 17 grams. For the baskets I use, 15 grams is beneath the ridge. I have a few "strict" 14 gram baskets and they can only accommodate 12 grams with proper clearance; at 14 grams, the puck surface is making contact with the dispersion screen on lock on. That's never a good thing.

When I downdose with this same basket, the distribution is actually below the rim, which case I use the Stockfleths Move for Dummies. Also see:

• Proper distribution technique when "down dosing" using WDT
• Which basket for a fill, level then tamp 14g dose?
• Dosing less than level with the rim of the basket

[barry]

because I destroyed it with a green scrubby after (mis)reading and applying Schomer's cleaning routine

how the heck did you destroy a basket with a green scrubbie?

[Elbasso]

If you scrub hard and long enough on a daily basis for half a year then you must have enlarged the holes. That's what I thought at least and thus I threw out the basket.

[barry]

You must have really been scrubbing aggressively!

[Elbasso]

Some get their aggression out on a pillow, others on a basket .................

[zin1953]

Interesting (to me, at least) side note . . .

Prior to getting my Elektra, I was using a La Valentina. I filled the baskets, both singles and doubles, used my finger to fill to the edge, level out the overall fill, and brush away the excess coffee. Then, I tamped, and pulled the shot. Seemed simple enough.

But nearly everything I read about Elektra machines included that they were sensitive to overfilling/updosing (thereby leading to no head space for the puck to expand, etc., etc., etc.), so I bought a scale and measured my dosing . . .

Turns out that doing my single baskets this way, I was consistently dosing singles to approx. 12 grams.

Turns out that doing my double baskets this way, I was consistently dosing my doubles in the range of 14.0-14.5 grams.

Cheers,
Jason

[BobS]

If you've a bottomless portafilter, you can use a Synesso ridgeless double basket. You can get 20g in
and it'll just hit the screen. At 18g it won't touch the screen. A flat wipe of the finger will get 17g, a
curved wipe 18.5 to 19g, and tapping while filling will push it to almost 20g with a flat wipe. I picked
up my basket from here - http://www.coffeetamper.com.au/products/baskets.html

Bob

[cafeIKE]

Ouch! $17.50 for a basket! They're $6.89 + Tax & shipping direct from Synesso

[BobS]

Ouch! $17.50 for a basket! They're $6.89 + Tax & shipping direct from Synesso

Yeah, but it was on the same order as the tamper. Also note that Greg goes through, sorts them
out, and tosses any duds.

Bob

[cafeIKE]

Cupla yars back, we bought a group buy and they were all remarkably consistent.

[Psyd]

Mine pull differently, weigh differently (3/4 of a gram heavy on one...or light on the other..) and have a different number of plugged holes. They're pretty nice, don't get me wrong, but I might pay a bit more for two that were sorta the same... Even more for a matched set!

[cannonfodder]

I dose below the rim of the basket. I work the portafilter in a circular motion while I thwack the doser. That doses the grounds evenly around the basket and below the rim. I give the portafilter three short downward thumps on the tamper stand to settle the ground and tamp. No magic or voodoo distribution but my grinder does not produce many clumps so it is not needed.

[CoffeeOwl]

Dave,

I noticed that the thumps usually lead to donut extractions - how is your experience?

[Elbasso]

I noticed that the thumps usually lead to donut extractions

I tried tapping three times to "totally settle" the grounds in the recent past and did indeed experience an unusual amount of donuts. My current routine just involves one tap and has yet to produce a donut.

Here's what does it for me: after thwacking the daylight out of my Mazzer, I usually end up with an almost level dose just below the level of the rim with just a slight hump in the middle. Then a N,S,E,W bend finger swipe without any downward pressure to inverse the hump and shave off excess grounds if needed. Just one, medium tap on the counter to settle the grounds and see if anything "caves in". Finishing with a single tamp and left/right twist. I stole the twist from Klaus Thomsen after I saw him do it in the video below (at about 50 sec).

No donuts since I switched to this technique. It also produces a very nice and constant flow.

[HB]

Dave,

I noticed that the thumps usually lead to donut extractions - how is your experience?

Not speaking for Dave, but donut extractions are slow flow extractions, typically due to center-weighted dosing. Focusing on dosing along the perimeter of the basket by rotating the portafilter will help (i.e., "pay attention to the landing"). If you mound up a pyramid of coffee grounds, thump, and then redistribute, the pour is almost certain to be a donut.

[cannonfodder]

I have not had any issues with the 'donut of death' extractions but as Dan hints at, I dose around the perimeter of the basket, not in the center. That is why I move the portafilter around in a small circular motion; the doses throw against the sides of the basket and slide to center giving me a nice even distribution. I also grind fine and tamp lightly now and leave a good ¼ inch of headspace in the portafilter. Around 12-14 grams and I pull 1.5 ounce shots, but your mileage may vary. Some machines are more particular to dosing and distribution than others.

[Randy G.]

Overfilling, underfilling, grind, tamp, distribution, and it never ends. For those of us who pull limited number of shots each day and don't have multiple machine on which to pull, it is easy to fall into habits, good or bad. It happens slowly... each day dosing a little more and a little more, then changing the grind slightly and not recognizing the reason that you are changing the grind is to compensate for another problem. Are you grinding too coarse or dosing too much? Probably both... same can be said for using too little coffee and grinding too fine. "Overfilling" by definition means you used too much coffee. So the rule becomes, "Don't use too much coffee."

I make the above comments because I have been doing it- using too much coffee. I had recently been having a lot of channeling problems, and finally assembled enough neurological activity to ask myself, "What the heck is going on?" Although I had suspected distribution difficulties, even the WDT had not solved the problem. So the other morning I dosed and tamped as usual, locked the PF in place, and then removed the PF before pulling the shot. Sure enough, the top of the packed coffee was stuck to the brewhead! I had been overdosing to an extreme.

Two lovely pulls this morning, using less coffee. Mmmmmmm....