One week with the La Marzocco GS3 - Page 6

[malachi]

I used them to pull shots, which is to say I hit them once to start the shot and a second time to stop it. :D

I programmed them to be 2.5oz volume, hit them to start and pulled the cup out when the shot was done. Worked like a charm.

[HB]

If the SERBC is held in ATL, will they have a judge's certification course? I'd love to take it and participate, even if it means eating bland food for a couple of days.

I assume so since there's been a one-day certification workshop at the last two SERBCs that I judged. The good news is you wouldn't have to worry about the SCAA sensory skills test (AKA, the "psych" test).

[Paul_Pratt]

I'd like to make a few comments on the ergonomics and ease of use of the GS machine pictured above. I understand completely the concept of learning to forgive a few shortcomings, with older machines we tend to be a lot more forgiving because we like to believe that at the time it was the best solution available and that any big mistakes are part of the charm and character.

That little machine has some really silly mistakes such as the hot water valve which is possessed by some demon to spit boiling water in every direction except into the cup. The solution? don't use it except for the odd bit of espresso cup washing and warming. And you know what? even the current LM machines had the same hopeless water spout until a few years ago.

The steam wand is not at all bad, in fact it is one of the only machines I can do anything that closely resembles latte art with

What would be great on the GS3 would be to incorporate the control switches into the centre group cap and maybe have the display on the side. Or at least have a semi-auto brew switch in the center cap. Just like the older style solenoid GS machines.

With regards to style I think what immediately comes to mind is balance. If you look at the Speedster as well it has great balance like a cat on all fours. The GS3 has something missing that maybe a Kees would pick up on and tweak.

Paul

ps that brown GS group paddle is real. It was one of the first samples from a company I had remold the originals - no spares exist so it's a case of make your own. I think that one was CNC cut in bakelite.

[Ken Fox]

Excuse me, but this thread is becoming a parody of what many of us think of CG. All this fawning over equipment at this level is somewhat nauseating. I say this as someone who truly admires what LM is doing with this machine, and how they interract with our community. I wish them great luck with the GS3 and hope they sell a ton of them.

Have people forgotten that the great majority of what is going to be in yoiur cup is the beans you start out with, most of the rest in your grinder and grind setting, with a modest amount in your barista skills and even less in your machine? If you want truly great espresso, buy better beans or learn how to roast better. Most of respondants on this thread presumably already have very good gear and barista skills; the incremental gains from a better espresso machine are going to be incrementally very small.

ken

[HB]

Have people forgotten that the great majority of what is going to be in yoiur cup is the beans you start out with, most of the rest in your grinder and grind setting, with a modest amount in your barista skills and even less in your machine?

One of the site's earliest threads is It's the Barista, Stupid ("I"ve ordered these factors by what I believe are their relative importance. You may be surprised to see the espresso machine ranked last") and one of my favorites is The problem is on the handle side of the portafilter, so obviously I agree with you.

Although I too admire what LM has accomplished, I have no plans to add myself to the GS3 buyer's waiting list. Some HB members probably will and I believe this thread offers them an idea of what they can expect the first week, i.e., a capsule "Home Barista's Perspective" to compliment Chris' Pro's Perspective writeup. My intent was to (a) see if all the hype has any basis in reality and (b) offer a balanced, dispassionate viewpoint for those considering a significant financial investment. The discussion may read as somewhat of an equipment geek-fest, but that's in the nature of the subject choice.

[Jepy]

I don't think anyone at this level forgot what goes into a great cup of espresso. I'm here to learn, and discussing all the little details of high end equipment is of use to me, heck I even find Mr. Fox's numerous temp data graphs useful. I know people like that spend much time on this kind of thing, and I appreciate it. The people of this site have taught me a lot, and I for one would like to see this type of discussion continue.
So please, keep it coming.

[Nick]

Dan, my point was that the SERBC is not gonna be in Atlanta anymore. It will be back at Playmakers Repertory Theatre on the UNC campus.

On a different note, what's wrong with using the automatic buttons on the GS/3? Other than it doesn't "look hardcore?"

As I've always said, if the auto-buttons are there, might as well use them. Some people are under the misconception that if you use the semi-auto function on an automatic machine, say, a La Marzocco Linea, that it somehow bypasses the flowmeter, effectively bypassing the diminished brew temp stability of AV Lineas (vis-a-vis EE/semi-auto Lineas). It's not true.

On the GS/3, the flowmeter occurs on the cold-water side, so the flowmeter doesn't effect the brew temperature stability. Now when I had the GS/3, I used the on-off switch for sure... but only cuz I'm used to it. On a machine like that, I don't think there's any shame in using the auto-pad.

But that's just me.

[Marshall]

Excuse me, but this thread is becoming a parody of what many of us think of CG. All this fawning over equipment at this level is somewhat nauseating.

Ken, I hope you heard the sound of bitten tongues all over the Internet when you wrote that.

This GS3 obsessing is like what you do when you order a hot car that won't be delivered for several months. All you can do until then is fantasize about how much fun it will be to drive.

[AndyS]

Excuse me, but this thread is becoming a parody of what many of us think of CG. All this fawning over equipment at this level is somewhat nauseating.

Is this the same "Ken Fox" that:
- owns two $2500 espresso machines,
- exults at their improved performance after PIDing them,
- tinkers with internal piping to modify temperature profiles,
- obsesses over pump type, preinfusion pressure and rampup times,
- installs auxiliary pump timers,
- publishes thousands of words and dozens of graphs documenting their technical performance?

Couldn't be. This must be a parody of Ken Fox.

[Ken Fox]

Is this the same "Ken Fox" that:
- owns two $2500 espresso machines,
- exults at their improved performance after PIDing them,
- tinkers with internal piping to modify temperature profiles,
- obsesses over pump type, preinfusion pressure and rampup times,
- installs auxiliary pump timers,
- publishes thousands of words and dozens of graphs documenting their technical performance?

Couldn't be. This must be a parody of Ken Fox.

I've done most of that stuff to embarass people who think they have to spend a pile of money to get these sorts of results, rather than tinkering with what they already own

And, if you've actually *read* those long boring posts something is conspicuously absent; much of an impression that this sort of stuff matters, at least in a major way. I did say that putting in a delay timer on a rotary machine that has an instantaneous pressure ramp up, results in fewer sink shots, in that way getting the newer more expensive machine to emulate an older technology, cheaper machine.

So I repeat: play around with your existing machine or buy the latest and greatest, just if you are already reasonably skilled and if you already own decent level equipment, the improvements you will see in the cup are apt to be vanishingly small.

Have fun in Chicago; hope you brought along a melita cone, given this recent picture of Jim's Isomac:

ken

[Ken Fox]

Ken, I hope you heard the sound of bitten tongues all over the Internet when you wrote that.

This GS3 obsessing is like what you do when you order a hot car that won't be delivered for several months. All you can do until then is fantasize about how much fun it will be to drive.

A week after you spend your next car's downpayment, you will be rewarded with . . . . . a cup of espresso.

ken

[Marshall]

A week after you spend your next car's downpayment, you will be rewarded with . . . . . a cup of espresso.

ken

This will be a huge bargain compared to my old senior partner's first $250,000 swordfish steak.

[Ken Fox]

This will be a huge bargain compared to my old senior partner's first $250,000 swordfish steak.

This is more or less what we say about Sun Valley Ski Resort Season passes; the first run costs $1900, and the rest of the season is free.

ken

[jrtatl]

Dan, my point was that the SERBC is not gonna be in Atlanta anymore. It will be back at Playmakers Repertory Theatre on the UNC campus.

Well, that blows for me. I was lookin' forward to having this competition down in my neck of the woods. Well, a cousin of mine just moved to NC. Maybe September will be a good time to go visit her.......

[another_jim]

Have fun in Chicago; hope you brought along a melita cone, given this recent picture of Jim's Isomac:

The Tea will return from its near fatal accident (pump failed during a boiler refill, taking the heater with it) in quite a Nietschean, 6 million dollar man, fashion, bearing a whole load of over the top prosthetics. Will it content to sit on the counter, or will it try to take over the world? Of course, I need to take a plumbing course first

[HB]

Dan, my point was that the SERBC is not gonna be in Atlanta anymore. It will be back at Playmakers Repertory Theatre on the UNC campus.

Thanks for the clarification. I can't complain about the convenience of the location (20 minutes from my house), but I was starting to look forward to crashing Bob's place in Atlanta. Oh well, maybe I can convince him and Abe to come to North Carolina for the competition.

On a different note, what's wrong with using the automatic buttons on the GS/3? Other than it doesn't "look hardcore?"

I'm fine with their function, it's their equi-sized layout that disappoints my product design sensibilities. It could be worse; I have this cheap portable TV with an 80 button remote (8x10). Each tiny button has exactly the same size and spacing. It's easier to walk up to the set then try to find the remote's change channel buttons.

Of course, this is nitpicking on the grandest scale, but I would argue it's worth noting given the GS3's premium price tag. I don't expect these oversights will cost them any sales.

[Jacob]

The brochure lists a couple of points where one says "Brew water pre-heating system".
Can anyone tell how this preheating takes place?

There's a heat-exchanger through the steam boiler.

And in addition, there's a hot/cold water mixing device. This ensures that any overheated water from the heat exchanger is cooled down before it enters the brew boiler.

Today I was told (by a technician from a La Marzocco selling shop) that there is no HX and that the brew boiler water is just picked up from steam boiler itself

Can anyone verify if it actually uses a HX or not?
And how about the mixing device, can anyone verify that this device made it into the current production model?


Thanks
Jacob

[miKe mcKoffee]

Today I was told (by a technician from a La Marzocco selling shop) that there is no HX and that the brew water is just picked up from boiler itself

Can anyone verify if it actually uses a HX or not?
Thanks
Jacob

IIRC he's right and wrong. The group gets the water directly from brew boiler, the brew boiler get's it's water via HX so it doesn't have to heat as much and hence yields more stable brew boiler temp.

[Jacob]

IIRC he's right and wrong. The group gets the water directly from brew boiler, ...

This don't make him right we're strictly talking preheating of the water going into the brew boiler.

This guy has put up several of these machines, so normally I wouldn't questioning him and he is to be taken seriously. To clarify that this is not a misunderstanding on my part; the remaining of that part of the conversation were about the pro and cons of using steam water to brew coffee. I would hate to see him wrong, but I don't like having some additional 3 liters of hot water in the brew path neither

[Jacob]

But he MUST be wrong! Otherwise the pump had to pick up cold water to fill the steam boiler and hot water from the steam boiler to use in the brew path - no way!