Olympia Cremina - water coming out of the safety valve

[hipponax]

I'm pretty new to this forum, so I hope you won't mind some questions that will certainly sound familiar to most of you. I recently acquired an Olympia Cremina on ebay. Not sure exactly how old it is, but the serial number begins with 87.. if that means anything, and the seller thought it was at least 15 years old (it belonged to her parents, apparently). Anyway, I've pulled some excellent shots from it, but have noticed some leaking recently. I opened it up, and all the gaskets seem intact.. no leaking from any of the usual places. But I do see considerable activity around the safety valve, and it looks as if lots of steam coming out of there is condensing and then dripping down the side of the inside walls. With the back removed, it steams and only condenses a little, but when the cover is put back on, it starts up again, and really drips all over the countertop. I tried bleeding the steaming wand a bit, but this doesn't seem to change things. So my question is whether there's something I can adjust to either reduce pressure or temperature, or something, that would reduce the water coming out of the safety valve. Or are these tanks just not meant to be filled very full? Any thoughts from all you aficionados would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks,

Ralph Rosen

[mogogear]

The 87 indicate the year manufactured- 1987 so your former owners were close. As far as the the steaming issue that seems to be causing your leaking ( or your condensation leak) the best first step is to run a good quality de-scaler through your machine to see what the insides can get rid of. Have you been able ( with a flash light) to see into the boiler? There could be some build up in your pressure relief valce or..... you pressurestat could be way out of adjustment or several other things that those that are far wiser than I will respond with soon. De-scaler brands procedures etc

Hope you are having fun!! Post some pictures soon - we all like to see the kids!

[hipponax]

Many thanks for the suggestion to descale. The boiler didn't look excessively grungy, but I figured it was a good idea anyway, and the safety valve might have been clogged with no other symptoms in the boiler. It definitely has helped, but some water still seems to end up down at the back feet; now it's just some very slow dripping, but obviously this isn't the way it's supposed to be. Is it possible that the safety valve might still be a little clogged, and I should remove it for a more thorough cleaning. When I figure out how to post an image, I'll put one up of the machine!

Ralph

[HB]

When I figure out how to post an image, I'll put one up of the machine!

See Posting images on HB.

[srobinson]

How full are you filling it? I would try about a quarter inch below the Max line and see if that solves the issue. The safety value is adjustable, but only do that if you think it is now working correctly. I would try and get a pressure reading on it first to ensure I have the machine adjusted correctly. If in range, then I would adjust the pressure valve. Happy to help where I can.

[hipponax]

Thanks, Steve! I've been getting some dripping from the safety valve even when the tank isn't completely full (i.e, with a quarter inch or more from the top of the level indicator). You mention a pressure reading: how does one go about taking this?

Ralph

Here's a picture of the new machine:

[hipponax]

Here's a picture of the safety valve problem I've alluded to:

You can see that the steam that comes out from the hole closest to the inside of front metal panel condenses and forms droplets. When the cover is off, much of the actual water starts to evaporate before it begins to stream down; but once the cover is back on, a slow stream of water starts to dribble down and exits at the bottom where the back feet are. I'm a little at a loss to explain what's going on. If anyone has any ideas, let me know! Thanks...

Ralph

[RCMann]

Check Steve's thread out on the Cremina rebuild and you can see there's a flat sealing washer that fits inside the valve that probably needs replacing.

You can also try tightening the body of the valve on the machine as well as the top cap of the valve, in case they may be loose.

The pressure release point can be adjusted by taking off the cap of the valve, then tightening the insert you'll see inside the body of the valve. This will preload the spring inside the body and therefore will require more pressure before the valve releases. Before you do this, make sure you check the pressure of the tank, should be ~1 bar ± .1-.2 bar.

Check the Cremina threads, there are a few ways to determine pressure, from cap gauges to temporary gauges screwed onto the steam valve, to my method of permanently putting a pressure gauge on the machine. Or by purchasing a Cremina 2002!

Rod

[hipponax]

Thanks so much for this! I'll look into the gasket issue first, since it may be as simple as that. I really appreciate all the advice...

Ralph

[hipponax]

I took apart the safety valve to familiarize myself with its inner workings. I also looked at the pictures and discussion on Steve's rebuild posts. I couldn't find any urethane disk in mine, as he has in his pictures. I wonder if that's a newer piece, or whether it's something I need to replace? So, I assume that by screwing the threaded piece on top of the spring UP, one reduces the pressure, and DOWN it increases the pressure. I guess I should experiment with this a bit. Here's simple question, though: in a perfectly functioning safety valve, should there be very little or no steam coming out of the valve and no condensation forming at all? I'm trying to get a sense of what's normal. It seems clearly "wrong" for droplets to be streaming down the interior of the machine, but if steam is normally exiting the valve, then I can't see how one could avoid the formation of droplets.

Ralph

[RCMann]

You're right, down increases the preload and thus the pressure required to release is higher.

Your pressure valve looks exactly like mine, which is 1974, so I would guess you've got a washer in there. It's a clearish piece of neoprene or whatever, so maybe it's hard to see as it's probably dirty and may look like it's part of the metal in the cap.

It's a pressure release valve in case the boiler builds up too much steam, and shouldn't leak at all, at least until the pressure builds up enough to release it, at which point you'd want it to release...Rod

[Avi Fischer]

I just took my valve apart on a 1991 Cremina, I wonder if you did not remove the lower piston, if you did not see the clear washer. After you remove the top cover, then the adjusting nut, then the spring, there is a piston at the bottom that you can lift out by pulling it with narrow tweezers, that is where you find the clear disk. In mine I found some deposits under the disk, I wonder if that could cause the leak in yours. Hope this helps.

[hipponax]

Yes! Thank you; I DID find it last night-- I was looking for it in a different place, but now understand how it functions. So, I threaded down the the adjusting part in the safety valve a quarter inch or so, and it SEEMS to have fixed the leakage/condensation problem! I'll keep my eye on it, but so far, no more droplets streaming down, and no steam coming out of the valve. Thank you all once again for your advice!

Ralph

[bobcraige]

I have a minor drip in my machine as well that I am about to deal with. I think you perhaps are missing a very important point here. The safety valve is adjusted for the correct release pressure at the factory- presumably with a test fixture. It is now leaking due to old seals and or contamination. Simply tightening it down until it stops leaking is like putting a penny under a fuse. Yes, you may have stopped the leak, but you may well have defeated the purpose of the safety at the same time. Screwing it down a quarter of an inch might defeat the spring altogether. I would suggest that you should note the original setting and fix the problem without changing the setting unless you find that the setting has changed-perhaps due to fatigue of the spring. It is conceivable that you could totally defeat the safety while "fixing" the leak. In the history of the world, boilers have been known to explode and not always is this a nice thing.

[hipponax]

Gosh, now that's a sobering thought! That's all I need, a boiler exploding in my kitchen! I probably exaggerated how much I turned that adjusting piece-- prob was 1/8" rather than 1/4", but still, I take your point. OK, well, seems like I need to get a new spring and that little clear disk. Is there an easy way to get these parts, or does one need to get them directly from Switzerland? Thanks for the advice.

Ralph

[srobinson]

I would like to reiterate Bob's caution. If you read my post, it states to take a pressure reading FIRST. There are picture on my restoration thread to show how to do this. You could be blowing steam because your safety valve is working and your pressurestat is malfunctioning and needs replacement. A metal canister under high pressure is also known as other things besides an espresso boiler...it's a bomb. Please ensure you are doing the right fix for the issue. If you don't have the tools, or don't understand the system then send it in to be looked at by professionals. As we have mentioned in several posts, advice on this column are things that have worked for us and should not be construed as a substitute for professional advice. Please don't shortcut the fix. I have no interest in reading the post: For Sale, used Olympia...has bad habit of scalding owner....to a good home.

[RCMann]

OK, I realize I'm the guy who basically isn't too concerned with normal safety issues such as asbestos removal and the like.

But I really don't feel that adding a quarter turn of preload to a spring that's 15 years old and almost certainly weaker than it was 15 years ago is going to make the boiler explode. Even screwing it in a bit, you've probably got a net preload less than it was when the machine was new. Plus the urethane disc will, like spinal discs, have compressed a bit with age as well.

There are enough places on the machine where parts are screwed into the pressure circuit that one of those would likely give and leak steam before the boiler 'blows up'. And even if all those points held tight, before there was an explosion there would be either a failure at a brazed seam or perhaps at a weak point in the metal itself (unlikely) and steam would vent, most likely, into the boiler area which is covered by the...er..cover!

I suppose the 'explosion' could manifest itself by the cap blowing off the boiler or the steam wand flying off and becoming potentially deadly projectiles, but I doubt it.

C'mon, take the risk, fire up the machine, and make some coffee!!

Just don't ask me to get near your machine when it's up to pressure!

Rod

Note-I just reread the thread and 1/4" is a helluvalot more than 1/4 turn! My mistake. I'll leave my post in though and still stand by most of what I said...R

[Avi Fischer]

I agree that the safety valve needs to be handled carfully. Generally speaking this valve should not be leaking as it should be set to relieve pressure in case the pressurestat fails. If it leaks you need to suspect that the pressure in the system is too high. I believe that if you need to make a significant change in the setting of the adjusting nut, there is something wrong with the pressure. If after cleaning it and mabe replacing the disk it is still leaking, I would consider replacing the whole valve rather than risking a setting that would allow pressure to rise too high in case the pressurestat fails. If the pressure in the system is correct and it still leaks, there may be corrosion in the seat of the valve (its same as a faucet), then you can overcome that by increasing the pressure on the spring, but it is no longer a safety valve.

[srobinson]

As a moderator I am not advising anyone to take unnecessary risks. I have put alot of personal time and effort into this site and forum and am simply cautioning against activities that may result in an accident or unexpected results. You are dealing with a system under pressure. If you circumvent its primary safety feature then the system will fail. Most likely it will blow the tank gasket or the site glass. My suggestion stands to test the pressure to ensure that you are within standard operating metrics, adjust the safety valve so that it still operates as it should and perform routine maintenance with new gaskets. I do not advocate nor take responsibility in taking actions like

C'mon, take the risk, fire up the machine, and make some coffee!!

Play it safe here.

[hipponax]

Sorry to have caused such anxiety about pressure! Believe me, I'm going to take the advice about properly gauging pressure before using the machine (though I have to confess I pulled some fine shots before I read this thread, and everything *seemed* fine). So just a few questions: 1) If pressure checks out fine, and the safety valve is not leaking at its current setting, should I consider everything safe? Or should I take a pressure reading AND replace the spring and plastic disk on the safety valve anyway? 2) I looked at the pix of the pressure gauges, and how the readings are taken, on the rebuild threads: can I get one of these manometers at a Home Depot? I guess I'll try to get one I can connect to the opening for the steam wand.

Ralph