Not Getting a Versalab M3, what about Cimbali Jr MAX with same burrs?

[ricci71]

I posted this in my search for a conical grinder.
I found Cimbali and it looks good. Can anyone tell me why I should not go for this one?

It's not as expensive as the M3 or a Robur.

Vaj

[wookie]

No, one might expect it to grind similarily to the M3 but I haven't done any research on this model yet. All I know about it is that it sports the hybrid burr set, rather than the Jr.'s flat burrs. The Mazzer Kony might be another model to consider.

[another_jim]

Looks good; and the price I found, $835, is cheap for conical grinder. The case is similar to the Junior's, and has advantages and drawbacks. The advantage is that it is a tremendously civilized grinder -- very quiet, mess free, etc. The drawback is that it is hard to change coffees and impossible to use without the hopper (i.e. spooning in single doses).

For my eccentric method of use, the M3 is better; for most normal people, this one looks like the clear winner.

[wookie]

Jim, I wonder if you have any thoughts as to how the M3 compares to a big conical grinder, like the Kony? I don't mean in terms of usability or cost.. just the grind quality. I don't know anyone with a Kony, but I believe you were getting feedback from Greg, if you haven't used the Kony directly..

[another_jim]

Jim, I wonder if you have any thoughts as to how the M3 compares to a big conical grinder, like the Kony? I don't mean in terms of usability or cost.. just the grind quality. I don't know anyone with a Kony, but I believe you were getting feedback from Greg, if you haven't used the Kony directly..

I tested the M3 against a Mini with half used, then fresh burrs, and found a fairly clear difference after a long sequence of comparisons. Abe agrees, but Andy, as far as I know, didn't find such distinct differences. Greg found distinct differences between his Cimbali cadet or Junior and the Kony. I don't think the difference is as dramatic as going from say a whirly blade or bean crusher to a good burr grinder, but it is there. Oddly I find the difference more telling for brewed coffee and especially lever shots than for shots from my Tea.

I've posted what I think is the explanation on the M3 thread -- that the much longer coarse grinding path of conicals or dual burr grinders improves grind consistency, but haven't been able to verify this argument. Greg suggested using an the Intel USB microscope along with a bit of massaging in photoshop. Unfortunately, I got an email from a long time altie who has one and found the optics insufficient for examining coffee grounds. Gradated sieves also do not work according to the Illy and Vianni book. So, as of now, I don't have a way of checking the grind quality directly.

[AndyS]

Andy, as far as I know, didn't find such distinct differences.

When doing a series of shots with the M3 and Mazzer Mini, I often find that the best shot from the series is from the Mini. I still play with the comparison from time to time.

[malachi]

Dual burr set grinders are going to produce a different grind than straight conical.
Comparing the Kony to the Max purely on this basis is not an apples to apples comparison.
Everyone seems to have a preference on this - but there doesn't seem to be concensus.

That being said, if you prefer the style of grind of a straight conical, then the Kony would be a great choice. Perhaps overkill.... but a great choice.
If you prefer the results from a flat/conical combo, then the Max would be a great choice. Again... perhaps overkill...

If you don't prefer one over the other - then you're going to want to look at usability rather than burr set to make your decision. Both of these grinders have stengths and weaknesses in this area. These tend to be consistent within the grinders from each manufacturer (i.e. the Mazzer doser is a weakness as is the Cimbali hopper).

[wookie]

Sounds like good advice, Chris. I'm still trying to form the opinions you refer to. I am familiar with one flat burrset (Mazzer Mini) and somewhat less so with a hybrid burrset (M3). But I don't have any direct experience yet with pure conicals like the Kony. It would be great to have a Kony & several other grinders on my counter to compare directly. But I don't, so I'm trying to narrow down the choices vicariously.

[ricci71]

Looks good; and the price I found, $835, is cheap for conical grinder. The case is similar to the Junior's, and has advantages and drawbacks. The advantage is that it is a tremendously civilized grinder -- very quiet, mess free, etc. The drawback is that it is hard to change coffees and impossible to use without the hopper (i.e. spooning in single doses).

For my eccentric method of use, the M3 is better; for most normal people, this one looks like the clear winner.

Jim

Could you elaborate on why one couldn't spoon in a single dose? Or why it is hard to change coffees?

Thanks

[Jepy]

For "spoon in" use I have found that one can use Cimbali grinders with a tube in place of the hopper. See pics at link below. I have used this same tube on the Junior, and the Cimbali/DRM combo burr grinder. Also saw a San Marco semi coniche in Italy recently, the burrs from that grinder are pictured in the link as well. This San Marco seems similar in speed to the Max from what I read.

http://homepage.mac.com/jepy/PhotoAlbum66.html

[Woofy]

I noticed that the La Cimbali Max is available through Pasquini's online store. From what little information is listed, it appears the Max is roughly identical to the Junior with the only differences being the burr set and a 1.6" taller hopper that holds an additional 0.6 pounds of beans. The case dimensions (excluding height, because of the Max's taller plastic hopper) and motor wattage are identical.

Check it out:

http://www.pasquini.com/commercialgrinders.html

[Cafesp]

I had my eyes on Versalab M3 grinder after reading Abe Carmeli's report.
I really like the doserless style, straight down, no chute, almost no-clumping coffee distribution; but the regularly belt-drive design adjustment turn me off!(Jim's issues)
Then i read about Cimbali Max Hybrid Jr. from CCS; after talking with Chris, having emails exchange, posting my question regarding CMH vs other grinders, i was referred to read "Can it beat the Mazzer Robur" by another_jim.
What a wonderful project with loaded info. about top grinders!
Information Age we live in; I'm graceful and benefit from the Gurus do the hard work for us.
There's another one you can read is Reviving an Abused Cimbali Max by cannonfodder to appreciate the Cimbali Max grinder.(that's my choice)
Sorry for talking too much about it. It's not about MY choice is better than YOUR choice....but just sharing my 2cents experience with our community.
Good luck on your Search and ENJOY IT.
Nathan

[Cafesp]

http://www.home-barista.com/forum...ap-mk7r-t5365.html
More info about Cimbali Max Hybrid.
Cafesp