New Elektra Microcasa A Leva - Bitter Coffee

[Tink]

My new Elektra came yesterday. I haven't made a drinkable espresso yet. I have only used an old Krups machine to make milk drinks. I never drink espresso, only capps and latte. I really do not know what good espresso should taste like. My only experience with espresso was many years ago at Star$s. I didn't like the taste so I stuck with milk based drinks. I still plan to drink mainly cappuccinos but I think I should get familiar with how great espresso taste before I cover it up with milk.

I have read everything I could find on the Micro Casa A Leva. I have tried the single and double baskets. My beans are a little old. They are from Peets and were roasted about 3 weeks ago. I have greens on order. The espresso is thin in body, very little crema, and quite bitter. The extraction is within normal time parameters.

Any Tips?

Thanks -Heidi

[HB]

They are from Peets and were roasted about 3 weeks ago. I have greens on order. The espresso is thin in body, very little crema, and quite bitter.

I would expect three week old dark roasted coffee to be bitter under the best of circumstances. The Microcasa's effective brew temperature rises with each passing minute and each extraction. A lower brew temperature would make the best of your dark roasted coffee, e.g., 10 minute warmup, flush half an espresso cup's worth, lock and load.

Are you an accomplished homeroaster? If not, I always recommend going with a known espresso blend from a reliable professional roaster when learning the idiosyncrasies of a new piece of gear. Otherwise you may end up "chasing your tail" for a few weeks.

[KarlSchneider]

Heidi,

Dan is certainly correct that 3 week old beans are part of the problem. They for sure will not make much crema. The Microcasa is not distinguished by crema production in the best of circumstances.

As I think about your post I would suggest trying what you are familiar with. Make a milk drink. The Microcasa does steam well. Compare what you know and like to what you get from it.

You do not say what Peets beans you have. They often roast darker than others (or used to when I bought their beans). I find darker roasts less bitter. If you have SO beans that will be important in bitterness. Central Americans and non-Brazil South Americans are likely to be bitter as are Indonesians.

I guess the point is that there are many issues here. Do not despair. That machine does make great espresso. You will find the right combinations.

KS

[Tink]

Thanks Karl,

I know the problem is my lack of experience. The machine is beautiful and I am determined to get a decent drink. I did add frothed milk to one of the shots. It was quite strong but drinkable. The beans are Peet's Major Dickenson. I have loved this blend in my old Krups machine.

[KarlSchneider]

I am not familiar with the Major's Blend. From Peet's website it seems aimed at classic french press methods. Most of these coffees I have tried do turn out on the bitter side as espresso. The Microcasa a leva will accentuate this quality. On the other hand I find these coffees to make great Americanos. The added volume tones down the bitterness. I love Kona made this way but find it always bitter as espresso.

You might try roasting some green espresso blends. I have enjoyed Sweet Maria's Classic, Monkey and Moka Kadir blends as espresso all roasted about a minute into second crack. I would guess the Classic would make an espresso on the lines of the Major Dickenson's. The Monkey and Moka Kadir are progressively leaner and more complex. I find them to make better espresso in the Microcasa a leva.

My experience with professionally roasted beans for espresso has been mixed. The ones I have tried all seem roasted on the light side to my taste. I suspect these blends are developed by roasters using high end commercial espresso machines and not testing them on lever machines like the Microcasa a leva. Almost all I have tried end up tasting too bitter to me. Even when really fresh. Part of this is the taste profile of the Microcasa a leva. Part is that more lightly roasted beans of a blend that makes the right acid balance in a La Marzocco will not make the same balanced taste in our machine. I admit I have tried only a few professional roasts because I consistently get results I do not like.

Broadly speaking I see several factors making espresso bitter: over/under-extraction, degree of roast darkness, taste profile of the beans used and machine taste profile.

Have fun learning to create the espresso you like. And, in the end, it is what you like that counts. I have been on this journey for almost 6 years now. I am excited about trying tonight an espresso made from a Yemen region I have never had before.

KS

[zin1953]

You might try roasting some green espresso blends . . .

Heidi --

While Karl's advice may work for some people (and it is good advice for those for whom it will work), I personally prefer a) to take things one step at a time, and b) not to start home roasting*.

The original Peet's location (Walnut & Vine) is just downhill from my house, the closest source for coffee (in either dry or liquid form) I have. And indeed, I stop there probably 2-3 times a week. That said:

1. I've always found Peet's coffee to be better in more "flexible" home machines (such as my old Gaggia or your old Krups) than in more "serious" home/prosumer machines like my La Valentina or your Elektra.

2. Three week old beens are part of the problem (and in a perverse way, that shows the quality of your Elektra -- it's more demanding of the "raw material," if you will, than your Krups).

3. There are much fresher sources for roasted beans closer to (your) home.

If, as Dan alluded to, you are an accomplished home-roaster, then you should know how your home roast should be, and you can use that in learning the "idiosyncrasies" of the Elektra. If, however, you are just starting out with home roasting, you should start with a commercial roast you are familiar with, but not three-week old beans. Try some from PT's Coffee in Kansas, or from Espresso Vivace in Seattle (they always arrive between 2-4 days after roasting!).

Once you have your machine (and grinder) "dialed in" with commercial beans, you can then start playing with your home roasted ones . . .

Cheers,
Jason

* The last thing I need is another obsession! God save me from home roasting!!!

[HB]

Try some from PT's Coffee in Kansas, or from Espresso Vivace in Seattle (they always arrive between 2-4 days after roasting!).

Hmm-m, the latter is the home of David Schomer, who prides himself on creating demanding espresso blends (e.g., 203.5F brew temperature, 8.2 bars pressure, etc.). PT's Bella Vita is a forgiving crowd pleaser. They're other recommendations in the Coffees forum (e.g., Three good beginner espressos).

[KarlSchneider]

I have greens on order.

Any Tips?

Thanks -Heidi

Heidi,

The "tips" I sent above about green espresso blends was based on the assumption that since you had on your own ordered green beans you are an experienced roaster, happy with your results. No one is going to recommend adding the large learning curve of roasting to the spring lever learning curve.

A user-friendly roast will be helpful. I can speak to home roasting suggestions. If commercial roasts are better for you, you will have to ask the Microcasa a leva users which they recommend. I continue to note that a good-place-to-start roast for this machine may not be the best starting point with an HX.

One more thought. Once you pick a coffee to start with, stay with it for a while. This will help you taste the specific qualities of the Microcasa a leva taste profile.

KS

[zin1953]

Hmm-m, the latter is the home of David Schomer, who prides himself on creating demanding espresso blends (e.g., 203.5F brew temperature, 8.2 bars pressure, etc.) . . .

OK, I'll give you that one! I wasn't thinking about that, but rather the timeliness/freshness of the beans. But you're quite right, Dan, about the "demands" of Vivace . . .

* * * * *

Heidi, try PT's Bella Vita (they're in Topeka).

[r-gordon-7]

I'm experiencing first-hand what a crucial factor is played by the "age of the bean" (something the folks here told me about right from the start...)

We only do espresso on those weekends we're out at the beach house, which is where we keep our machine - a Gaggia Factory 106 (non-spring lever). Sometimes we're out there every weekend, other times only every other weekend. Only pulling cups on the weekends puts a lot of time between clusters of cups and clearly illustrates the difference a week can make... Moreover, pulling only 3-4 cups on the weekend mornings we're out there - and none at any other time - means a pound of roasted beans lasts a long time - much, much longer than its shelf life.

I bought a pound of freshly roasted Espresso Blend at Lighthouse in Seattle on a Thursday night several weeks ago. I was told it had been roasted 3 days previously. It made for very good "force resistant" pulls when properly ground that first weekend - resulting in strong espressos with more than adequate crema - and not bitter at all. The next weekend the pulls were noticeably weaker - needed to adjust the grind a bit - and were somewhat less flavorful, with less crema - though still not bitter. (In fact, my wife preferred it on weekend two to weekend one, as on weekend two it was a bit less "intense" - though I preferred it on weekend one.) The following weekend (weekend three), very weak pulls regardless of the grind, almost no crema - and most importantly, quite noticeable bitterness. The following weekend (weekend four) - no choice but to dump the balance of the bag as, regardless of the grind, the results were simply too bitter to drink...

Just goes to show what a long, long time a week (much less two or three weeks) is in the shelf life of a bean.

Looks like I'll be speaking to Lighthouse about buying more frequently and in smaller quantities each time (1/4 to 1/3 lb should be ample) - and bringing it "fresh" to the beach house each weekend - or at most every other weekend... Anything beyond that is simply too old... at least too old for a lever machine.

r-gordon-7

[ntwkgestapo]

Heidi, I own a Gaggia Factory 16 (just like R-Gordon-7!) and 1) can attest to the PT's Bella Vita as a very good starting blend (at least in my Gaggia!). 2) When I'd just gotten the Gaggia I did MOST of my experimenting with fresh beans from a local roaster (Mill Mountain Coffee & Tea, here in Salem, VA) as I could get half a pound to a pound of fresh roast (never more than 7 days old, as they "flush" the bins every seven days) and used that for quite a while, until I'd BEGUN to understand my Gaggia. I did try some PT's Bella Vita during that beginning and found it QUITE tasty and also a very forgiving blend.
Right now, I'm enjoying (well as soon as my tastebuds completely recover from the flu) some Counter Culture Coffee Espresso Aficionado, but I'm finding that blend is a bit more sensitive to temperature (not a lot, but a bit more) than some others. I have yet to go the home roaster route, altho I have tried some home roasting... just not ready to go all the way quite yet!

I would DEFINITELY recommend you find a roast that you can get fairly easily for your learning journey BEFORE jumping into the home roast or even some more "challenging" coffees. Get to understand your machine first, THEN have a ball experimenting!
And on the Major Dickenson, I had a very nice cuppa of that (drip brewed) just today.. While I used to use it quite often for my SBux Barista machine and got some decent espresso out of it, I have yet to get anything really decent out of it with my Gaggia lever. Always seems to be bitter and underextracted... Probably just me, but that's what I've seen.

[Trisha]

What's your espresso grinder, Heidi?

Congratulations on your new Elektra MCaL, too! Mine is 16 years old, and in the family for over a year of nearly daily use. What tamper did you choose? I've often wondered what the espresso would be like, closer to sea level (a little jealous).

When you get fresh beans, the adventure really begins!

My palate may be a bit primitive, but I've come to love pan roasting my green coffee (at least once a week, the day after baking day, usually). for espresso. I have to agree with the other folks, though - get to know your Elektra and learn with a smile on your face how it treats every aspect of a shot, one after the other.

Don't be afraid to power it off as a shot pulls and the milk's steamed into chiffon - I get three double cappas that way, before it overheats.

Good luck!

Trisha

[CafSuperCharged]

I really do not know what good espresso should taste like.

An intense coffee flavor with enough acidity for "freshness" without being explicitly present, velvety mouth feel, some oily component without becoming greasy. Potentially there are pleasant tones like fruit, nuts or chocolate. The crema has no visible bubbles and darkish reddish brownish tiger stripes/dots on an otherwise tan surface. The taste lasts long and remains pleasant, even if your perception of after-taste changes a few times in the fading away process.
The crema is strong enough for a spoonful of sugar to stay afloat for some time until it absorbs too much liquid and sinks through the crema.
Not experienced coffee drinkers generally respond to a god shot with "strong/intense but delicious".

My beans are a little old.

Elsewhere on this forum it was mentioned that updosing a little (coarser grind) could help a bit here.
What grinder do you use?

I have greens on order.

I would put them away for some time still. Espresso itself is an optimization process in a multidimensional space and you want to reduce the number of variables as much as possible.
Develop a good barista skill first, then start to learn to roast.

The espresso is thin in body, very little crema, and quite bitter.

"Looks" like over-extraction. Could be one of grind too fine, pressure too high, temperature too high, extraction too long - or a combination of these.

The extraction is within normal time parameters.

How long is that - normal?

I would suggest to start with an espresso roast that has known forgivingness reputation.
Somebody suggested Espresso Vivace. I tried two of their blends: Dolce and Vita. My experience was Dolce is more difficult whereas Vita was more forgiving. The point is to develop a notion of the relation between espresso qualities and brew parameters. At some point in the learning curve (you are having consistent fun with the routine) you could try to move to less forgiving blends and start a new learning curve.
After that I would start roasting - not before.

Regards
Peter

[Tink]

Thanks everyone for the help. I'm off to PT's today. They have a store in Overland Park that is fairly close to me.

My grinder is a Mazzer Mini. It was purchased at the same time as the Elektra so I'm still learning how to use it also.

The tamper is the lovely deluxe black plastic tamper that matches the machine. Come on Elektra, you can do better than this. I have a Coffeelab on order that should arrive tomorrow.

My coffee is at least drinkable with milk. Even though I have a lot to learn, the machine is beautiful on my counter.

[HB]

Come on Elektra, you can do better than this. I have a Coffeelab on order that should arrive tomorrow.

True, it's a cheap plastic tamper, but at least it's a decent fit. You'll love the Coffeelab Design tamper; it has a very solid grip, especially for those with small hands.

[zin1953]

Heidi, every espresso machine comes with one of those cheap plastic tampers . . . Hmmmm, come to think of it, I didn't see a plastic tamper when I unpacked my Elektra T1 . . .

Heidi, almost every machine comes with one of those cheap plastic tampers . . . it works fine until you have a chance to replace it! I needed a 49mm tamper for my Olympia Cafferex and opted for this from EspressoParts, NW.

Let us know how PT's coffee works . . .

[RapidCoffee]

The tamper is the lovely deluxe black plastic tamper that matches the machine. Come on Elektra, you can do better than this. I have a Coffeelab on order that should arrive tomorrow.

True, it's a cheap plastic tamper, but at least it's a decent fit. You'll love the Coffeelab Design tamper; it has a very solid grip, especially for those with small hands.

I couldn't agree more on the subject of tampers. Espresso machine manufacturers should be ashamed to include a crappy plastic tamper with a beautiful shiny new machine costing over $1K. But as Dan points out, at least the Elektra POS tamp is usable. I've been doing a "thumb" tamp: take basket out of PF, dose into basket, level, tamp lightly, brush off stray grounds, and then tamp harder by pressing down on opposite sides of the tamper (inside the basket) with my thumbs. I know it sounds funny, but it's the easiest way for me to get a nice firm level tamp with the Elektra tamper.

Heidi, almost every machine comes with one of those cheap plastic tampers . . . it works fine until you have a chance to replace it!

Actually, not true. My 51mm Pavoni came with an ill-fitting 49mm tamper (probably designed for pre-Millenium models), and even worse, my 51mm Gaggia Factory came with a 55mm tamper that is totally useless. (BTW, congrats on your new Elektra T1. Color me green... )

Back on track: I've also found Elektra spring lever shots to have a slightly bitter taste, relative to the manual levers. I dialed down the boiler pressure to match the setting on my Gaggia Factory (slightly under 1 bar), but the bitter undertones remain. It's more curious than objectionable. I'm still guessing higher temps on the Elektra are responsible, but wonder if different basket geometries (49mm vs. 51mm) also play a minor role.

[KarlSchneider]

For Microcasa a leva users who are also home roasters I have to recommend getting some Yemen Mokha Sharasi (I got mine from Sweet Maria's). Tonight I had three pulls of 4 day old beans roasted 1 min into 2nd on a Hottop P (my custom profile).

These three were all 9.5+/10. The initial taste was the distilled essence of stony earthiness that defines Yemen beans to me. The lean profle of the Microcasa a leva was perfect for this bean. No bitterness and no over sweet softness. The flavor lasted as long as any I can remember. Several minutes into the finish the taste changed to a clear, dark chocolate background. All I can say is that it is the best Yemen I have had in several years. I have not tried SM's new Ismaili or Mattari yet.

KS