Need hints on using E61 thermocouple adapter - Page 2

[erics]

For Elan - I don't think you need to splice in to the insty HW htr. Don't forget that there is loads of water at near room temp in the line between your accumulator and Mr. V.

For Anthony - Anita/Andreja are COMPLETELY different than Vetrano from the standpoint of what happens to the "backflush" water. More later on this - but what counts, the only thing that counts, is that you are enjoying what you are making.

[erics]

The difference between Anita/Andreja and Vetrano is this:

When you backflush with Anita/Andreja, all of the water that the pump puts out AFTER it "fills the group" & reaches OPV pressure passes THROUGH the hx, through the OPV and back to the tank.

When you backflush with Vetrano or any other E61 hx machine, the pump "fills the group" & then water either recirculates within the pump (Vetrano & any other rotary pump machine) or heads back to the tank (Vibiemme, Giotto, Expobar, etc., etc.). There is ZERO flow at this point through the hx.

[RegulatorJohnson]

Jon's "blind flush" is forcing the water to rapidly circulate, thereby equalizing the system's thermal balance without expending water. Neat idea, Jon!

i dont know what is happening exactly but it seems to work. i guess different configurations will act differently.

i recently got one of the black dial probes that chris sells for eric. it is much faster than the omega HTTC probe i was using with the fluke 561. it has changed my style again. i still do the simulated shot. my pstat is pretty low probably .9 - 1.1 bar but still get hell-ified steam with stock tip.

glad this works for you guys! keep me informed.

jon

[erics]

Pulling multiple shots with Anita - she has a slight leak on her vacuum breaker valve but that will be attended to soon. Although pstat was set at 1.20 bar, I had been playing a little and group temp always takes a looong time to get back to 212.5 so beginning group temp was 211 +/- for the initial (and only) flush. Putting the pstat at 1.25 or 1.30 would also reduce the shot interval.





The first shot obviously caught the outlier bug from Idaho

[RegulatorJohnson]

here are some videos.

vetrano backflush cooling - style 1
2 ounce flush and 2 consecutive backflushes.


vetrano backflush cooling - style 2
2 ounce flush and 1 backflush.


vetrano backflush cooling - style 3
2- short flushes and 1 backflush


i kind of like the PF cam view. as you can see the style can vary and i hope you have fun experimenting.

enjoy some coffee.

jon

[HB]

i kind of like the PF cam view. as you can see the style can vary and i hope you have fun experimenting.

Fantastic! I was surprised you knocked out the puck of the "portafilter cam" attached. FWIW, I use a bottomless portafilter and drop in the basket, which makes for a less interesting portafilter viewpoint...

[jgriff]

Portafilter cam=Awesome! I love the view. Not only can you see what's going on with the basket and puck preparation, but it's entertaining as you point it at the clock or we catch a glimpse of the dog! Just curious, what type of camera are you using for that? I know next to nothing about photo/video gear, but I was just curious if it might be one of those mini cameras designed to shoot mountain biking videos and such, especially where you're in SLC.

Justin

[IMAWriter]

Beautiful video's...I just purchased Erics device from Chris...Eric has helped me tons to figure out what's going on...and has posted all the great HB links such as this one....ya gotta love our coffee community!

[TimEggers]

That portafilter cam is darned cool. Thanks for the movies too its convinced me to ask Santa for the adaptor for my Anita. Thanks to all in this discussion as well.

[jeffg]

I tried this technique on the Vibiemme Domobar Super and it works very well!

Hi, can you describe what readings you got? My thermometer reads up to 215 on the first flush (boiler is set at like 1), i then stop when it hits about 210, then backflush down to 204 or so but i think i'm still pulling too hot as the pre-infusion reads like 208 then rapidly goes to 205 down to 203 during the shot. Would love to see some videos of you grinding, dosing, tamping and pulling on the domobar and with the thermometer as it's what I have and am still learning.

[RegulatorJohnson]

if you have plenty of steam you can probably turn the pstat down a tiny bit and see if you can get the group to be cooler but still have steam. i use the idle group temp to set my pstat, to get to a comfortable working speed and such. so im not feeling rushed to keep up or stalled waiting on the machine. then i still have lots of steam. this worked on both my pulser and the vetrano. i figure if im going to be working in a situation where im chasing a rising temperature i want it to be at a similar pace that is comfortable for me.

the same huge ramp up happens then the rapid decrease, same on the vetrano. but only when using more backflushes. some of the different styles seem to produce different curves and also different differences between the probe and the basket temp. i like to use short flushes and a final back flush temp check. this combination seems to have a lower initial jump but the later ramp down is still present.

i have had one of the Erics TC's for a while. my theory has just been trying to get the same temp curve to happen every time, ramp up about 6° from 198° to 204° then 4° down to 200°. i watched it happen over and over on the pulser. then i started to try to hit specific temps. i deducted that it would still go up 6° then down 4°. so i tried to get the starting 196° and it seemed to work, 202° then down to 198°.

then vetrano came and ruined it all. it took about 90 days for me to get situated on it and have the ability to get multiple shots with similar curves. it takes me some time to learn all the sounds and quirks of the machine. it is a super fun process for me. i like to memorize how long a 2 ounce flush is. and only try to flush 2 ounces at a time. i listen to the OPV as im backflushing to see how that sound of the water coming out relates to the temp on the probe. i try to be aware of everything the machine does and see how it relates to the number on the probe. like taking a draw of water from the hot water tap then seeing how that affects the brew temp. etc.

i hope everyone enjoys using erics TC it is a must have tool to help you learn to be one with your machine.

thanks for the time.

jon

[avdiscolo]

After a great deal of experimentation with my Anita and the Chris Coffee grouphead thermometer, I have found that the following simple steps work well:

1. If the grouphead has been idle for more than a few minutes, I flush until the temperature reaches 210 and pull the shot when the temperature reaches 206.

2. If I have just pulled a shot, then I do not flush and just pull the next shot.

After every shot, I do perform a quick portafilter rinse of 1-2 oz.

The brew pressure is set to 9 and the boiler pressure is set to 1.2. At the end of the shot, the temperature is around 201.

Given all the data we have with this setup, can someone guess what overall temperature I am pulling the shots at? Both Espresso Vivace Vita and Olympia Big Truck through my Chris Coffee bottomless portafilter with the standard double basket turn out very tasty.

[erics]

Both Espresso Vivace Vita and Olympia Big Truck through my Chris Coffee bottomless portafilter with the standard double basket turn out very tasty.

Obviously, that's all that counts.

Where exactly in Washington are you located? Do you know your elevation? What does the grouphead thermometer read after several hours of idle? Does it follow these "curves" ?

I will try to run a thermofilter test with your procedure but my guess would be ~203 average over 25 seconds.

Skol,

Eric

[avdiscolo]

Where exactly in Washington are you located? Do you know your elevation? What does the grouphead thermometer read after several hours of idle? Does it follow thiese "curves" ?

I live in Sammamish (near Redmond), which is about 500' above sea level. I know that after approximately 1.5 hours idle time, the thermometer reads about 212 degrees.

Do you have any idea what the overall shot temperature would be in my setup if I performed the old-school cooling flush technique as described in HX Love (flush to 5 seconds after boiling water disappears and then pull shot immediately)? Come to think of it, I haven't tried any old-school techniques since I got my thermometer. I'm going to compare them tomorrow morning and see if I can tell the difference.

[quar]

Anita users...How long is the group taking to recover to 198 deg from a flush down to 185 deg. The 3:30 minutes that I'm seeing seems to be unusually long compared to what I've seen charted. This is after a good hour long warmup.

Mike