Need help making espresso with Cappuccino Amore

[TimEggers]

I've been trying to dial in my new (to me) Cappuccino Amore and am having some problems.

First and foremost I learned the hard way never to remove the boiler cap when the machine is the least bit warm. I did and steam and boiling water literally erupted and covered my kitchen. And me. I'm ok but my forearm is burnt pretty bad (its real sore). I thought the machine was cool enough, nope. I thank God my daughter was down for a nap in her room rather than at my side where she usually is when making coffee.

Now on to the extractions. The machine is complete and fully functional so I don't suspect any fault of the machine. Nope I'm afraid its all me. My technique is this (please critique):

1. Let machine heat up until the light goes out.
2. Grind, dose, WDT then level the basket (double I assume, its large) then tamp with the cheap plastic tamper (its a perfect fit).
3. Lock portafilter and slowly depress handle.
4. I've tried pausing for anywhere from 2-10 seconds then I let the handle go.

Ok what I'm seeing is a quick gush of about 1/2 ounce then a slow drip. I've made one decent shot that was okay tasting. The aroma so far has been exceptional. I just can't seem to get the flow right. The crema is also quite thin and dissipates quickly.

The coffee is Liquid Amber espresso blend that I roasted. The same as I usually do and typically what makes good shots in my Anita, so I don't think the coffee is too far off. At least not enough to explain what I'm seeing on the Amore.

Can anyone offer any tips for the Cappuccino Amore or general spring lever tips for me? I've searched the HB.com FAQ's and Favorites and also google. Not too much luck. Any help is greatly appreciated.

[peacecup]

One way to be sure the pressure is gone from the boiler is to open the steam valve!!! If there's steam don't open the cap!!! Let it all dissipate out the steam valve first. Caution: this does not mean there is no pressure left in the group/portafilter. You need to allow that to dissipate through the puck which usually takes a minute. Also, always remove the PF slowly as a precaution.

Sounds like your grind is too coarse. Grind fine enough to choke the machine (pull the lever down, and the spring will not push it back up). TURN IT OFF AN WAIT UNTIL THE LEVER RISES BY ITSELF (ie the pressure is released). SLOWLY UNLOCK THE PF IN CASE THERE IS ANY PRESSURE REMAINING. Grind a notch or two coarser and you should be in the right flow range.

Alternately you can just keep going a notch or two finer at a time until you get to the right flow without choking.

I had an Amore, but never got a PF for it so I couldn't test it. I don't care for the exposed boiler, especially when kids are around. The Ponte Vecchios have a case to prevent burns.

PC

[Bushrod]

Sounds like you may need to release false pressure.

[IMAWriter]

Sounds like you may need to release false pressure.

Same thing to me. Tim, when the light goes out, open the steam valve a second or 2. The boiler light should come on again. Then wait till the boiler light goes out again, and proceed....flush a bit of hot water through the group, as it won't be up to temp yet.
Don't mean to sound like an expert. I got my own issues...technique, most likely.

[IMAWriter]

BTW, a nice looking machine.

[TimEggers]

Thanks everyone for the tips. I didn't think about bleeding off the false pressure, or the heating flush. Actually I avoided the heating flush because I'm afraid of overheating the group. Talk about these levers overheating has maybe made me too protective.

Also about taking off the boiler lid, yes that was my own bone head move. I knew better. I even had the steam wand open full blast. It was a dumb thing to do.

While I haven't had any real success with this machine I'm thoroughly enjoying the process and I'll admit the little machine is really taking a special place in my heart. I've not seen too many complete and functioning Amore's out there, most of the ones I've seen are being sold as parts. I'm very excited I'd like to retire the Amore while still functioning as a collectible but really she seems more than ready to be a daily driver for a while.


Judging by the insides of the portafilter I don't think she's seen too much use. (I can change that)

Also a side note, what is the port on the back of the brew cylinder for? It spews water with every pull, can I safely plug this hole? Right now I lay a dishrag over the back of the brew head to catch the water spray.



Many thanks again guys, I'm having a blast with the little lever that could (wish I can).

Here is a video of what I'm seeing. In the video you'll notice a gush of water when I depress the lever that's from the top of the lever chamber (this only happens once in a great while when I pull the lever too fast). Basically the gush as you'll see comes right as soon as I let go if the lever. Then it drips but the lever doesn't go back up at all. I did turn the machine off and walk away after about an hour all was well. When I let go of the portafilter is when I let go of the lever.

[TimEggers]

BTW, a nice looking machine.

Thanks Rob I have big plans for her. In fact I just finished the portafilter...



I really hope the rest of the machine comes out as nicely!

[peacecup]

Yes, release the false pressure. This is probably not the problem with the fast pours though.

If the port in the back is leaking water you may have a bad piston seal. The port is designed to let air escape when the lever is depressed and water enters the group. A seal on top of the piston is supposed to keep water from going there. If that is the only bad seal you might be ok for brew pressure. If the bottom seal is bad that could explain why your getting bad pours, although this seems unlikely since you're getting enough pressure to have fast pours. If you search around you should be able to find a photo of the piston on HB.

Sourcing seals for the CA pistons may be difficult, but should be possible. I've read that they have aluminum pistons, so it might be worth having a look inside the group someday anyway.

[orphanespresso]

Nice video. One of these day's we'll figure out how to post video.....do you give a tutorial?

Anyway, I agree with Peacecup on the seal issue. the Amore has 3 seals on the piston. The first (from the top) and the second contain the water aginst boiler pressure and the third (bottom) pushes out the water through the puck. We have been working with measurements sent to us from a desperate CA owner and finally got one on ebay and when it arrives we can do some hands on work and get some seals out there. As a preliminary caution, from the measurements it doesn't look promising from the sources we've checked, but we have yet to be stymied on coming up with some system of seals for an orphan machine.

Keep enjoying it. Looks good
Doug

[HB]

Nice video. One of these day's we'll figure out how to post video.....do you give a tutorial?

Not much to it. Upload to Google video or youtube. Paste the URL, surrounded by the appropriate tags. For example:

[gvideo]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3927132357068137357[/gvideo]

See Posting videos on HB for more details.

[TimEggers]

Nice video. One of these day's we'll figure out how to post video.....do you give a tutorial?

Anyway, I agree with Peacecup on the seal issue. the Amore has 3 seals on the piston. The first (from the top) and the second contain the water aginst boiler pressure and the third (bottom) pushes out the water through the puck. We have been working with measurements sent to us from a desperate CA owner and finally got one on ebay and when it arrives we can do some hands on work and get some seals out there. As a preliminary caution, from the measurements it doesn't look promising from the sources we've checked, but we have yet to be stymied on coming up with some system of seals for an orphan machine.

Keep enjoying it. Looks good
Doug

Hi Doug if you ever do source some seals please PM me or email me. I'm in dire need of some seals and like you have the faintest clue where to find any (or something that will work).

[cubastreet]

Hi this is my first post.

I bought a ce14 a couple of months ago.

Mine used to leak a lot until i learned to warm up the machine with the steam valve open until steam comes out. Now I have no leaking. This machine really needs a vacuum breaker. YMMV.

It's because the machine operates on a thermostat rather than a pressurestat.
False pressure doesn't trigger a thermostat to cut off, so the boiler goes straight up to full temperature, putting a lot of pressure on the seals.

My machine came with a dead thermostat so I PIDd it - cheaper than a pressurestat and button thermometers aren't accurate enough. I used a little 1/32nd unit that fits in the base with it's SSR.

The thermostat had died because one of the heating element o-rings had leaked. I replaced all the o-rings in the bottom, drilled some holes below the boiler and epoxied a bit of brass strip in the base to form a dam to protect the PID.

I'm getting some fantastic coffee from it, but it's borderline whether you can call it espresso - the crema is very thin.

I don't think the spring is strong enough, I might try to source a new one. Anyone have the measurements and specs of the ponte vecchio springs or something else that may work?

[mhoy]

My machine came with a dead thermostat so I PIDd it - cheaper than a pressurestat and button thermometers aren't accurate enough. I used a little 1/32nd unit that fits in the base with it's SSR.

Welcome to the forum. I can't help with any of your questions, but I would love to see pictures of the pid and more details, perhaps in a separate thread?

Thanks,
Mark

[cubastreet]

I'm going to put in a thermal fuse as an added safety to the button thermostat and OPV, then a PID override switch for steaming. I'll take some pics then.

[TimEggers]

Wow, now that's the nicest looking Amore I've ever seen. What a beauty! Thanks for sharing the picture. In time I hope to have mine looking half way as nice. Again thanks for sharing!

[orphanespresso]

Wow, what a genius installation, the PID, nice. We finally got our Amore and are about to clear the workbench to see what's what. The size and shape of the group looks an awfully lot like the Zacconi Riviera spring might work, or even an elektra spring. should be interesting to spec out some interchange on the spring as well as get the seals worked out. Nice observation about the warm up method working around leaks. I agree with the crema issue on some of the old levers....we finally got our Zacconi club machine up and running ...La Romana by name....tasty coffee but yet, no crema, and I'm telling myself that it is just a matter of grind and tamp combinations to find the sweet spot for the crema to flow, but so far, nyet.

[cubastreet]

Thanks, yeah, it's in really good condition and looks a lot better in real life than it did on the ebay ad.

I get some crema from it, but less from a double than from a single on the pavoni. If I push down real hard on the top while it's extracting, I get good crema.

I don't know how long my seals will hold out, so I think I'll machine a brass piston that will accommodate some standard seals at some point. I was thinking I'd cast up some custom seals, but a replacement piston with the grooves machined the right size for off-the-shelf seals seems like an easier plan, and would rid my machine of the cheap aluminum piston.
That would also allow me to accommodate a slightly different size spring if I need to.

Between that and a vacuum breaker, I think it'll make a killer machine.

I might see if I can top it off with a chrome eagle too.

[cubastreet]

I took the spring out last weekend and bent it as hard as I could against a pole to try and elongate it and it made a big difference. Before I'd get a little crema that would disappear within half a minute, but now I get a lot more, with a lot more staying power.

I've been using it all week and the coffee's been fantastic.

I can leave it on for an hour and it doesn't overheat either, which is great. Not a single burnt shot.

This Saturday I'll take the spring into work and force some steel rod between the spring in the vice, that should get some more life back into it.

[peacecup]

I never got to do anything with my CA, but I was impressed by the large and heavy group. Should provide a good heat sink to prevent overheating. Remember that pressure is inversely related to the piston diameter, which is why you need a really strong spring on these. The group is as big as a commercial lever if I remember, but there may not be space for that big a spring. You may need to increase the lever arm length and bolt the machine to a firm surface to pull a heavier spring.

[orphanespresso]

Tim! We finally got the seals all worked out! The main issue is that the darn piston actually takes 2 different size seals, at least on our machine. The differences are not great, but...the bottom seal we found a perfect, standard size for, but the middle & upper grooves are slightly smaller - just a fraction of an mm. Everybody curses the aluminum piston, but, to use the standard seal, one needs to enlarge the two upper grooves just a bit with a file, and then, you get a PERFECT sealed piston & cylinder! We are working on a 'how to' page on the matter. We have 2 sets of seals in hand, and ordering more tomorrow (or today, as it turns out!) The upshot is - we're pretty sure we've got the seals solved, and we'll have them out there pretty quick.