Need frothing tips for my Lusso!

[carrie kennedy]

The reviews for my machine praised the ability to froth milk fast with good microfoam, but when I use 2% and my pitcher, it heats so bloody fast, it doesnt seem like there is time to incorporate air and produce much foam. Also, at first, I get crazy bubbling, and then it finally settles down and steams. Hubby thinks a different pitcher, and that wand depth might be an issue. The Lusso wand is a little short, it seems, but it is able to sit about halfway into the milk. (If I am frothing for two) I do it on purpose to make sure the wand is in the milk enough.
I tried different techniques and steam flow. Any hints?
Thanks
C

[hbuchtel]

Have you read this frothing guide over at CG?

http://www.coffeegeek.com/guides/frothingguide

Especially pay attention to the position of the steam wand tip, it sounds like you might be keeping yours a little low.

How quickly does your PV froth? Can you tell us ml of milk, starting and ending temp, and time? Generally speaking, slower is easier, especially when starting out.

Henry

[grong]

Here is what I do with the Lusso for steaming. I put about 8 ounces of milk into the steaming pitcher, with the thermometer inserted. Then I put the pitcher under the steam wand, with the tip just inserted about 3/8" into the milk, then open the steam valve. Adjust the pitcher up or down a tad so that the steaming action is relatively quiet and does not produce big bubbles. When you are up to temp, (125 degrees by my measure), turn off the steam valve. With this machine, there is no need to tilt the pitcher, or other such moves.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[peacecup]

It took me a while to et a decent mirofoam with my Export because I usually drink straight espresso. I've finally gotten a little better - I angle the pitcher, and hold the tip just under the surface far enough so that it doesn't make big bubbles. I just hold it in one place, and continue to keep it under the "big bubble" line, which gets shallower as the foam builds up. I've found that a few swirls and bangs on the table after steaming help to burst the larger bubbles and create an even distribution of foam.


All that said, I'm still not very good at it.

PC

[mogogear]

I had the same problem with mu Bezzera- So if you have not read this thread- it maybe what you can try if the tip is too hard to master. FWIW, I had the same dilemma with the water wand http://www.home-barista.com/forums/bezzera-steam-and-water-nozzle-modification-t3128.html

I threaded a tip I had at home - Now I have a 4 hole tip and a "little" more control

[sneakymagic]

Hi Carrie,

For reasons too boring to go into I had a look at my Sama (precursor of PV) Lusso wands today and realised I would have to use a bit smaller pitcher or a steam too much milk for my individual cup needs. You could call it a design fault but from things I've read about the volume of stateside cappo's it seems a slight cultural misfire between Italy and the US. The Italians just don't use milk in the same volume.

As a by the by, my Sama has really stiff controls that might make it a bit clumsy to foam with if you are new to it - that true of the PV Lusso?

Meantime, I guess we can only look in Mogo's great big curvy wand(s) with envy

P.

[timo888]

BTW, what does the pressure gauge read when the machine is idle?

Regards,
Timo

[grong]

BTW, what does the pressure gauge read when the machine is idle?

A very good question.

I have set the top of my heating cycle to shut off just at 1 bar. This corresponds with a great temp for pulling shots for me, and the machine can be on for hours and is good to go. This lower pressure also decreases the steaming power, still plenty of steam for me. In fact, there is plenty of steam for me all the way down to about .5 bar. I make one or two cappuccinos a day.

It is a possibility that your steam tip holes have been bored out to a larger diameter, customized by the vendor. This will make for a faster steamer in experienced hands, but also at a loss of control, while learning. If this is the case, it would be pretty easy to swap out the steam arm for an original spec. With the original, the machine is a great steamer.

One last thought is to just open up the steam valve a little bit, and try to gain some control this way.


Best wishes.

[timo888]

BTW, what does the pressure gauge read when the machine is idle?

A very good question.

I have set the top of my heating cycle to shut off just at 1 bar. This corresponds with a great temp for pulling shots for me, and the machine can be on for hours and is good to go. This lower pressure also decreases the steaming power, still plenty of steam for me. In fact, there is plenty of steam for me all the way down to about .5 bar. I make one or two cappuccinos a day.

The factory pressure settings tend to be higher than what is required for typical home use|milk quantities. They are more appropriate for a catering operation, it seems to me. Perhaps the marketing folks fear that people will consider these machines underpowered if the factory settings were lowered to, say, ON at .6 bar and OFF at .9 or 1.0 bar?

Regards
Timo

P.S. Grong -- any chance you could provide a (pictorial ) step-by-step on how to lower the p-stat on the Lusso? It would be a very nice addition to the forum, especially for new lever owners who have not done this sort of thing before.

[carrie kennedy]

I would be interested in lowering my pressure stat as well.
I figured out that I needed to purge before steaming (eliminated big bad bubbles)
I am paying close attention to wand depth, using cold fresh milk and chilled pitcher, steaming just enough milk
for my drink, however am reaching temp before microfoam. Prefer capps, but settling for lattes because of
the steaming issue. Starting to consider switching out wand, lowering pressure?
Grazzi
Carrie
Read CG's synopsis on steaming too!

[peacecup]

I would give it a little more time before switching wands. I usually foam very small amounts of milk, and it took me a while to get the process down. Are you opening up the valve most of the way? If you don't you get heat but not froth. Try angling the pitcher so that the milk swirls in a whirlpool. Also, a tall, narrow vessel really helps - a shallow portion of milk in the bottom of a large. wide pitcher is a recipe for overheating. I've used tall narrow jars with success, provided I had a thermometer. I like to use metal so I can judge by hand, but again it took me a while to get proficient enough to steam a little milk in a larger pitcher. Good luck,

PC

[grong]

P.S. Grong -- any chance you could provide a (pictorial Very Happy ) step-by-step on how to lower the p-stat on the Lusso? It would be a very nice addition to the forum, especially for new lever owners who have not done this sort of thing before.

Perhaps, but in the meantime, here is a brief description. Of course, the machine is unplugged when it is being worked on!

First, here is the pressure stat. The slotted screw on the end is what is used to adjust the pressure--counter-clockwise to lower, clockwise to raise. I like to start with adjustments in 10-minute increments, if the screw were a clock dial. After I make an adjustment, I plug in the machine, fire it up, and see what changes were made.


Here is a photo of the Lusso with its case removed. The case is held on by the two outer bolts at the bottom of the machine. The steam valve knob and water valve knob must be removed before the case can be wiggled free. You ou can see the pressure stat, behind some wires, as it is screwed into the side of the boiler.


The case is a little laborious to remove and install. However, if you simply lift off the cup warming tray, you can look down the left side of the boiler and see the pressure state. If you remove the steam valve knob, by first removing its slotted screw and then pulling the knob straight out, you can peak through the hole in the case side and view the pressure stat's slotted adjusting screw. I use a little ratcheting right-angle screwdriver that I bought at the hardware store to reach down inside the machine to make the adjustment. The handle isn't long enough, so I tape it to a pencil to make the handle longer. It takes a little patience to get the slot lined up, but it is not too hard to do with the aid of a flashlight. All in all, a bit quicker than removing and installing the outer case.


The adjustment range of your particular pressure stat should be stamped on its plastic casing.


Best wishes.

[carrie kennedy]

Thanks guys,
I am steaming 8oz of 2% milk in a 20oz pitcher and it gets to 150 degrees in 45 seconds. No way am I increasing my volume by even 1/4. When I free pour my latte, there is only about 1 cm of microfoam. I open my wand up all the way. Eliminated the big bubbles by purging first, but am still way to fast (it seems) to get any decent foam.
Maybe a 12oz pitcher?
Peacecup's idea of a longer, narrower one?
C

[hbuchtel]

Thanks guys,
I am steaming 8oz of 2% milk in a 20oz pitcher and it gets to 150 degrees in 45 seconds.
C

Wow, that is a powerful steamer! I learned to froth (and still do) on a single-hole 'steam-toy' that takes 50 seconds for 100ml (3.4oz).

Have you tried plugging one or two holes on your tip?

Henry

[peacecup]

The time sounds about right. I general stop when the thermometer hits 140, because there is a slight lag, and the temp hits 150. If you're only getting a little foam on top you must still need to adujust the angle/depth of the tip - maybe you don't need to open it quite all the way. I've read elsewhere that its easier to learn with more milk, so you might try 12 oz of milk for learning. Again, I'm no expert on frothing.

BTW, my Export has a three-hole tip.

PC

[peacecup]

BTW, some milks seem to work better than others, so you might try that as well...

[timo888]

Thanks guys,
I am steaming 8oz of 2% milk in a 20oz pitcher and it gets to 150 degrees in 45 seconds. No way am I increasing my volume by even 1/4. When I free pour my latte, there is only about 1 cm of microfoam. I open my wand up all the way. Eliminated the big bubbles by purging first, but am still way to fast (it seems) to get any decent foam.
Maybe a 12oz pitcher?
Peacecup's idea of a longer, narrower one?
C

Based on some recent hands-on experience, I can say that when the Lusso's manometer reads between 1.1 and 1.2 kg/cm² you will have mucho, mucho steam. There is no need to open up the wand all the way. In fact, opening it up a crack will suffice. With the pitcher slightly tilted, try positioning the wand tip against the side of the pitcher to create the swirl, and avoid making bubbles if you can. Start out with the tip only partly submerged, listen for the PFFFFFT sound of air being sucked into the milk (good) and when you see the milk volume begin to increase, submerge the tip deeper.

Regards
Timo

[mogogear]

Carrie- a lot of advice here from the group- but you will end up frothing with your ears. The tip just below the surface etc.. But Tim and others described it - Thwpppppt! That is it! Listen for the sound..It will get sloppy if you introduce big bubbles.

You will move the pitcher down as you grow the foam volume - in order to maintain the sound you are using as your "depth monitor"

I brace the lip of my pitcher against the wand tip -so I can be more steady . then I can slide along as the foam grows.

A cold pitcher, good cold fresh milk, 2% is a good choice to start with. Whole milk is a little more difficult to work with as your are learning.

One last thing ----you mentioned that at first the steam wand blows bubbles , then it settles down to a Jet engine sound- that is perfectly normal.


Have a good weekend !

[carrie kennedy]

Oh beautiful gloss....
And the latte art is getting better too!
I almost made a rosetta today.
Thanks for all your suggestions, I think I just needed some time with the wand.