First pulls with new to me La Pavoni Europiccola

[Mike Panic]

this morning the nice fedex man brought an 8cup europiccola that i won of ebay last week. i've been waiting all day to come home and try it - ill get pix of it later - im still amazed at how clean this thing is.

i am a total n00b when it comes to espresso but after 2+ months of lurking here and coffeegeek and talking it over with my boss who is a bit of a coffee nazi, i pulled the trigger and decided on a lever.

got a very clean black base pre-millennium off the'bay, and all seems operational

found everything i could on how to use it properly and what to and not to look for as well as watching numerous youtube clips.

my current grinder is a cuisinart ($50 joint from BB&B), more on that later

filled it up with water, turned it on... waited for green light to go out, opened the steam knob to let some steam out, green light came on, turned knob off, waited. green light off, raised the lever and let some hot water run through the head, into the portafilter and into the catch tray to warm it all up. took portafilter off, wiped dry, added freshly ground costa rican la amistad. hmm, no scale, kept adding and adding till it looked right.

my boss loaned me a tamper which is prob around 5mm to small - but i did the best i could. tamped pretty hard but apparently i put too much coffee in and couldn't get the portafilter to turn. started to dish some out w/ my finger. finally got it on the machine. raised lever, first few drips came out and brought lever down - it came down in like 3 seconds... no resistance at all. hmm... ok.

my boss also hooked me up w/ 2 espresso parts square shot glasses - good cuz its a dual drip portafilter and i don't have anything short enough to fit under there. they barely made it to the ristretto line. tasted very watered down and a tad bitter (beans were roasted maybe 10 days ago). waited a few min and took portafilter off.

now my knockbox didn't show up so i hadda be creative to get this thing out - ontop of the fact that the basket just seems to fall outta the portafilter.. got it out and it was pretty solid - no real streaks of water through the middle.

set the grinder to the finest setting (it was on 2nd finest previously)... put less coffee in the 2nd time around and tamped a bit harder. this is when it went wrong.

burned my hands on the tube behind the water fill knob getting the portafilter on.. OUCH. lesson learned.

got it on, a little more resistance and about 13-15 seconds to pull down, all the way up to the ristretto lines, no crema, but a firm dry puck again and a lil more like what i would expect to taste.

3rd try... hadda hurry w/ this so i didn't over heat the machine. tamped harder here then before, filled to about the same as the 2nd one... got it on no problem, pulled lever all the way up - nothing came out... waited a full 10 seconds. more resistance than the first 2 times, and a wee bit of crema! the taste was much smoother and closer to the chocolate notes i know from this coffee as made in the french press

a proper tamper and i should be OK. i'm still tossing around the idea of a better grinder but don't have $200 in the budget for one just yet so i need to make due with what i have.

one thing i did notice though is that there seems to be a leak in mine - no steam came out of anywhere, just a bit of hissing. the sound seems to be coming from the safety nut, is there a seal / o-ring in there? it did also cause the green light to come on and go off when i was tamping / prepping the portafilter.

so first night - first tries at making espresso myself and i'm def in it to win it - can't wait to get a real tamper now and keep going on. I have some freshly roasted Bolivian and ethiopian yirgacheffe that im wanting to try through this thing.

any tips / advice would be very welcomed.

[samgiles]

Does your machine have one switch or two? If it only has one green switch then your machine is most likely a millenium in which case my advise to your 49mm tamper question may be a little off. Anyway, the cycling of the green light on those machines is, by all accounts, normal. I can't comment much further on their operation as mine is pre-millenium.
On the subject of grinder, I know I won't be the only one to comment but I'm sorry to say, good grind is paramount. These machines are really unforgiving. They are also really unforgiving of old beans. I was tearing my hair out at one stage with very fast extractions and no resistance until I bought fresh beans direct from a roastery. Suddenly everything was good again. I never realized how much impact stale beans could have as I'd previously only used a semi-automatic machine with pressurized portafilter. Those things let you get away with anything but will never make a shot as good as the lever machine IMO. Anyway, my $0.02. Hope it's helpful.
Sam.

[Mike Panic]

thanks for the input - it has one red switch (on / off) and a green switch that doesn't, well switch.

the beans im using are probably 10 days old at best.... some of the bolivian i have is about 5 days old - there is a place about 20 minutes from me that roasts so i always have fresh.

[samgiles]

My switches are red and white. Red is power on/off as you say and white (your green) brings it up to temp and you'd use it if you were steaming milk (I never have). I never get any drips comming through prior to pulling the lever down unless my grind is too loose or the beans are old. I've found that you do need a pretty fine grind and you want to have to pull down on that lever pretty hard.
Sam.

[RapidCoffee]

my current grinder is a cuisinart ($50 joint from BB&B)...
any tips / advice would be very welcomed.

Hi Mike, and welcome to H-B. Interesting website, BTW!

I've been using a La Pavoni Europiccola since last October (for amusement, check out my posts on the H-B Lever Smackdown). Also, my experience is on the newer Millenium model with the 51mm group. So take these comments with a grain of salt.

I have little to add to Chris (malachi) Tacy's thread on the La Pavoni Pro, other than to say that IMHO his observations are spot on. My best shots with the Pavoni have come from a fairly fine grind, hard tamp, and a single hard pull. To preinfuse lightly, hold the lever in the up position for 10 seconds or so prior to starting the pull. For more aggressive preinfusion (and greater volume), try the so-called Fellini move: pull down gently until the first drops appear, return the lever to the up position to fill the grouphead, and then give a single hard pull.

The best advice I can offer you at this stage: upgrade your grinder! For great espresso, a good grinder is not an option, it's absolutely essential. My guess is that your Cuisinart, while adequate for drip coffee or French press, is just not up to the far more demanding task of grinding for espresso.

Have fun with your new machine!

[Kaffee Bitte]

And another vote for Grinder! However you don't have to drop $200-500 dollars to get a functional espresso grinder. How about $40-90? Does that sound better? They are called manual grinders and they are definitely manual. No power what so ever but your arm muscles. Try using the search button to find tons of info about them. Or to get you started here is a link to one long thread about them.

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-grinders/hand-grinder-jive-photo-essay-t4482.html

Good luck.

[peacecup]

I've used hand grinders for several years with good results both on pump and lever machines. Now I can hardly imagine the noise of a $300+ electric grinder joining my espresso experience. If you go that route it will pay to read some of the threads and find one that will grind fine enough.

Some single origin coffees produce little crema even when fresh, especially very dark roasts. If you can find a fresh lighter-roasted espresso blend that might be a good place to start.

PC

[Mike Panic]

For more aggressive preinfusion (and greater volume), try the so-called Fellini move: pull down gently until the first drops appear, return the lever to the up position to fill the grouphead, and then give a single hard pull.

thanks! i'll try that when i get home tonight - i've heard of some doing 2 full pulls within the 25 second window but never that method.

10 shots of espresso last night between 630 and 1030pm and by midnight i was sleeping like a baby, lol.

this mornining was a bit different, i again over-filled the basket and had to wipe some of it out, clean the group head and re-tamp. also tamped a bit harder than last night and tried tamping w/ the basket on a kitchen towel and not in the portafilter.

pulled the handle up and did a slow 12 count and only 2 or 3 very small drops came out, started to pull down. a good amount of resistence (doubt it was near 40lbs) and counted coming down slowly. by about 8 seconds the color coming out of the spouts was amber, but wasn't doing the guiness thing in the shot glasses - continued down and hit the bottom of the stroke around 22 seconds, held for 2 full seconds then removed the shot glasses, looked at them and then drank. this was the first time in it tasted the way i have had espresso at shops with that really bright punch in the begining and a smooth almost creamy taste. not a lot of crema - not even enough to cover the top, but it tasted great.

this was again costa rican la amistad. tonight i am going to try both the bolivian and yirgacheffe by themselvs before i start to mix them.

about the grinder - i had looking into getting a zaus... but i'd much prefer the electric models and am looking into the le'lit that is available from 1st-line in the marketplace here.

[beansbats]

Congrats on your new machine, and welcome to the lever world!

My only comment is on the hissing coming from the safety valve. I have a Millenium Professional, and most of the time as it is heating up there is hissing from the safety valve. All I do to stop the hissing is tap the valve with my finger nail or a spoon.

I hope this helps.

-Steve

PS: Grinder

[Mike Panic]

last night was OK at best w/ the yirgacheffe... i tried the method of pulling down till a few drops, raising again, waiting, then one solid pull - no real difference.

this morning i tried some bolivian and was pretty ok with it - its all amber colored coming out of the spouts but dark brown in the shot glasses w/ some slight crema on top.

one thing i have noticed is that i never get much more than a ristretto's worth from a full pull w/ the double basket - that is to say, i have one shot glass under each spout and get a ristretto in each shot glass. is this normal?

when i raise the lever i get a full 10 or 12 count with usually no liquid coming out - im assuming this means i've tamped hard enough... but when i pull down, i don't have to use much force... which is leading me to belive that my grind is still a bit coarse.

i've also realized that i have been trying to put too coffee into the basket - im not sure i wanna spend $40+ on a digital scale... i think i might have it a bit more dialed in to where it needs to be.

grindenstein knockbox showed up today, no more beating the portafilter on the inside lip of the sink drain anymore!

a friend is in philly now (an hour from me) and picking up a 1/2lb of Nizza blend from the philly java company... im anxious to try it out tonight

met with my machinest friend last night about making the tamper - with luck he'll have it done tomorrow night or sat... some of you are gonna be uber envyous of it me thinks.

[ntwkgestapo]

Mike, you can get a 0.1 gram resolution scale that works just fine for less than $20 from a few places... I got mine from Harbor Freight! Right here: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93543

It's $12.99 via the web site and WAS on sale a short while back in the stores... I THINK it's normal price in the stores is like $17.99

Works GREAT! No idea as to it's actual accuracy (i.e. if it says it's 13.1 grams is it REALLY 13.1 grams or is it 13.5 grams?) but it's been VERY repeatable!

[Mike Panic]

Steve,

Thanks! There is a HF on the way home from work - I'll be swinging by tonight now!

[Mike Panic]

got the digital scale - it was $18... also picked up an instant read digital temp probe for milk frothing for like $5 - not a bad trip

two pulls earlier tonight after work, first was bolivian 2nd was costa rican - nothing magical from either

here's what i did notice - first time around i zero'd out the digital scale with the basket on it and added exactly 12 grams of crack, err, coffee grounds. spent a few min tamping it all out and noticed it looked really full. i couldn't get this thing in my machine to save my life.. hadda scrape some coffee out and re-tamp

2nd time around i put 10.5 grams in and that fit but was very hard to get locked into the group head. now - the tamper i have is a borrowed one from my boss which is about 4-5 mm too small and has a pretty agressive convex on it -im thinking this is part of the problem, but still - some of these sites have people getting 12-14 grams in a double basket - that seems like a LOT for this 49mm basket.

a friend brought some Nizza back from philly - i'll be trying out a pull or two of that yet tonight before i go to bed... report on how that goes tomorrow morning.

hopefully my friend can finish up my custom tamper tomorrow

[Mike Panic]

ok so im still up after 3 more pulls and 6 more shots tonight... i don't think i can fit more than 10.8 grams in the basket... we'll see w/ a flat bottom tamper

nizza was ok - maybe its the grind - but i don't know if im a big fan of it

tried the double pull in 30 seconds and it sucked. tried the 10 seconds, pull, drip drip, up again, wait 5 seconds, one long 20second pull - decent results

from what i can tell now - i get the best taste from the hardest possible tamp - which again is leading me to believe my grind isn't fine enough

lastly - grindenstein rules - but... why the EFF don't they have a sprint retainer on the basket of the pavoni's! i hadda bust out the vacume cleaner as the basket came flying outta the portafilter when i went to slam it for the 2nd time tonight... what a frickin' mess!

[cai42]

Greetings Mike,

I think you should use the same coffee while you are learning to use the lever. One less variable to worry about.

Cliff Isackson

[mogogear]

You'll get used to the loose basket- it is self reinforcing.... Just don't take such a big swing - kind of a quick wrist thing for me....

[Mike Panic]

well i can now get 11g of crack, err coffee, in the basket with the help of my shiny new friend



even with a tamp hard enough that nothing flows during the 10 seconds I keep the lever at the up position, I'm still only getting 18-22 seconds on a very controlled pull w/out what some have said of 40lbs+ pressure and not a lot of crema - which means I'll prob break down and order a better grinder today. the new tamper has helped out a lot already though, so I'm really happy with that. O yea, it's solid brass

[trix]

Nice tamper. Where did you find that one?

I am in a similar place with my La Pavoni Pro. I got a Rancilio Rocky grinder a little over a week ago. We will get a better tamper next.

[Mike Panic]

Nice tamper. Where did you find that one?

Thanks! A friend of mine custom machined the solid brass tamper for me this weekend. I'm guessing the weight to be around 3lbs - I'll measure at work tomorrow - it's very heavy. 2 piece design and we'll be making some more custom handles in the weeks to come.

[Mike Panic]

a few days later - 11.0 - 11.2 grams fits no problem now - i don't now if the new tamper is the trick - my grind hasn't changed...

i plan on ordering the le'lit grinder from 1st-line within the next 2 weeks or so - really looking forward to that

in the meantime - i've got a little less than a 1/2lb of costa rican coop dota dry process that i can pull virtually the same shot every single time i do it. still not a lot of crema but im sure that is due in part to the grinder

got a hookup on a really nice brazil / panama mix and cant get over how ungodly smooth it is - makes one hell of an americano... its so good i just wanna drink 40+ ounces of it at a time.

hope to go back to my friends shop as well in the next few weeks to try turning a few different handles for the tamper and hopefully get the portafilter on the mill to lop the bottom off it.