www.wholelattelove.com: our caffeinated commitment to you

My new Gaggia Achille

A haven dedicated to lever espresso machine aficionados.

Link to "My new Gaggia Achille"by Alchemist on Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:11 pm

Very first and foremost, I have to thank Cannonfodder for the AMAZING buyers guide. I read it first while it was being written, and then again, some point later. I have now read it again and it makes everything so very clear.

Next, pardon me while I do just a touch of self backslapping and bragging. Every since the Gaggia Achille came out and I started reading about it, I knew I wanted it. It fixed so many annoyances with lever machines. But the price was a real stick point. And I am not a big up grade fever nut. I tend to be happy with what I have. I also don't tend to spend a lot on upgrades. I do it slowing and methodically without great outlays of cash. About two years ago (before the review) I started putting away all money I made from roasting for friends. Earlier this year there was a roaster competition over on Homeroaster.org. I entered and won two prizes for my two homemade roasters. These I both found new homes (no offense HR folks, it was for the Gaggia PLAN that I entered). I also sold off my Zass DG 169 since I had my Giant Trosser. After all those, I was with a few hundred of a refurb priced one. I put my Gaggia Classic (big gaggia fan here) up for sale since I am a certified lever addict) and that put me over the top. Long story (not) short, I found an Achille on Ebay via WLL. Frankly, I didn't like some of the WLL refurb stories I have been hearing so dropped a line to Aabree coffee, and low and behold, they also had a refurbed Gaggia Achille they were willing to price match (about $850 btw instead of $1300). Sweet.

It arrived last week. All the stars and moon and my karma seemed to be aligned because I could see NO evidence of it being a refurb except the box had been torn open. It was brand new, all the parts still sealed, protective plastic still on the SS. I have had zero problems with it. No leaks, no nothing.

Within 3 shots (thanks to cannonfodder) I had GREAT espresso flowing. It's been another week and it just keeps getting better. I am getting full 1.5 oz doubles with not a hint of blonding. Oh, and one nice little surprise that I note was not in the buyer's guide review. The PF has a CLIP. No more flying baskets or burned fingers. A lever with a CLIP!

What else?

It does take more pressure to get a proper shot than from any other lever. I see why cannonfodder leaned into it (although I still only use my arms). You have to add on the pressure needed to get through the HX and need generally more for the larger basket. I recall seeing Timo noting that it had a 48 mm or so piston and using that for the square inches calculation. I believe it really needs to be based on the 58 mm plus the HX pressure. All told I would not be surprised if I am putting in excess of 60 lbs of weight on the lever. It takes that much to get the cup to behave like a 9 bar extraction.

Finally, I have found I don't really care for the bend that goes on in the frame when you pull. I am already thinking about re-building the frame to eliminate that. Yeah - rebuilding a new $1300 (albeit $850) working lever. But that is a long term project. I want it to look hot with all the nice curves still. In the mean time (and I will put a photo up) I happened upon a great long term fix. With the PF locking in straight ahead a wooden block under the PF handle completely keeps the machine from flexing and allows for an optional two handed pull.

That's it for now. Thanks for letting me share. And here is an open invite for anyone in the PNW to play with an Achille.
John Nanci
Alchemist at large
**
LMWDP #013
User avatar
Alchemist
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Dec 22, 2005
Location: Oakland, Oregon

Link to "My new Gaggia Achille"by Coffeecritter on Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:33 pm

Congrats from another brand new lever owner!

Great deal from Aabree! Keep that crema flowing!

Sue
Life's too short to live in Dallas!

LMWDP #157
Coffeecritter
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Location: Fort Worth, Texas USA

Link to "My new Gaggia Achille"by grong on Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:13 pm

Congratulations, Alchemist, on your new machine and smooth purchase. It sounds like you are having a wonderful time.

I am glad you like the clip on your portafilter, but I am happy that mine does not have one. I like the ability of taking baskets in and out easily. But I guess the good thing about the clip is that you can choose to either use it or remove it, just the way you like it.

Best wishes.
grong
 
Posts: 217
Joined: Aug 05, 2006
Location: Northern California

Link to "My new Gaggia Achille"by HB on Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:32 pm

Alchemist wrote:In the mean time (and I will put a photo up) I happened upon a great long term fix. With the PF locking in straight ahead a wooden block under the PF handle completely keeps the machine from flexing and allows for an optional two handed pull.

Now why didn't I think of that? FWIW, I support the portafilter with my left hand and pull downward with the right, elbow bent sharply towards the floor. I couldn't for this video because the tripod/camera was in the way, so there's a goodly amount of flex:

[gvideo]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4043661748505691855[/gvideo]
Dan Kehn
User avatar
HB
 
Posts: 7589
Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Location: Cary, NC

Link to "My new Gaggia Achille"by Alchemist on Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:55 pm

Dan,

You hit upon the one "heel" of the Achille. I timed out your pour and it was 36 for the pull. That is about the absolute maximum time I have been able to pull. Longer, as is sometimes common for a ristretto, and it burns. The rebound is so fast, 36 seconds is even pushing it. This one came set for a pstat band of 1.0-1.2. I use two flushes (or more exactly, one non-flashing pull). I don't really want or need 45 seconds pulls, but would dropping the band to 0.7-0.9 due the trick?

I was holding with my left hand also, and at one point hand my elbow set on something on the counter (sugar container I think) and found that very easy, and then :idea: how about something totally inflexible under the handle. Worked like a charm.

I wish I could pinpoint what is flexing. It doesn't seem to be any problem - it just feels odd.
John Nanci
Alchemist at large
**
LMWDP #013
User avatar
Alchemist
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Dec 22, 2005
Location: Oakland, Oregon

Link to "My new Gaggia Achille"by HB on Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:05 pm

Alchemist wrote:I timed out your pour and it was 36 for the pull. That is about the absolute maximum time I have been able to pull. Longer, as is sometimes common for a ristretto, and it burns.

The video depicts a long pull for me, even for a ristretto. My running joke is that anything over 42 seconds is fissile nuclear material. You could drop the pressurestat, but I never saw the need.

Alchemist wrote:I wish I could pinpoint what is flexing. It doesn't seem to be any problem - it just feels odd.

According to Lino, it's the shapely "hour glass" base. It's pressed stainless steel with a very heavy support piece running along the bottom (one end attached to the bottom of the boiler, the other to the bottom of the drip pan). You could try adding a fixed height support in the interior underneath the drip pan area. The Achille looks great -- using a wider base or forming sharper turned edges would probably eliminate the flex, but wouldn't look as nice. What we do for looks...
Dan Kehn
User avatar
HB
 
Posts: 7589
Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Location: Cary, NC

Link to "My new Gaggia Achille"by jgriff on Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:43 pm

Man, between the Smackdown and reading posts about levers like this I am starting to get upgrade (?) fever for a lever! I also have reviewed the bench thread on the Achille as well as the official review. I'm keenly interested to see how it works out for you, Alchemist.

Are there any Achille owners out there that have had their machine for a while and can comment about long-term usage and reliability? That flexing does seem especially disconcerting. I wouldn't want to have to modify a new machine or support it with a wooden block when you pay that much for it. I don't know if Cannonfodder (Dave) still has one. Dan, do you have one? It will be interesting to see if anyone comments about it in comparison to the levers reviewed for the Smackdown.

Anywho, congrats Alchemist! Don't know if I'll be around Oakland anytime soon, but I guess you never know!

Justin
jgriff
 
Posts: 98
Joined: Nov 30, 2006
Location: Portland, OR

Link to "My new Gaggia Achille"by HB on Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:09 am

jgriff wrote:I don't know if Cannonfodder (Dave) still has one. Dan, do you have one? It will be interesting to see if anyone comments about it in comparison to the levers reviewed for the Smackdown.

Yes, both Dave and I still have the evaluation models. Since this was a new model and members were asking about long-term usage shortly after the review was published, I asked WholeLatteLove for an extended loan. The clock is ticking, but we'll have enough time to squeeze comparisons in for the Smackdown.
Dan Kehn
User avatar
HB
 
Posts: 7589
Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Location: Cary, NC

Link to "My new Gaggia Achille"by jgriff on Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:24 am

HB wrote:Yes, both Dave and I still have the evaluation models. Since this was a new model and members were asking about long-term usage shortly after the review was published, I asked WholeLatteLove for an extended loan. The clock is ticking, but we'll have enough time to squeeze comparisons in for the Smackdown.


Cool, thanks. When reading the review and The Bench thread, I wondered if all the fanciness and the innovations Gaggia came up with would be a problem long-term. Specifically (and I know nothing about levers, to be honest, so this is all sort of "noobie"), I wondered about whether the one-way valves that Dave explained allow it to function the way it does will ever cause problems. Will there ever be an issue with the flow not working the way it should when the lever is raised or lowered? Or will water ever be allowed back up into the reservoir? Unfortunately, my guess is it will probably take years before than can be evaluated. Ah, well. :roll:

Justin
jgriff
 
Posts: 98
Joined: Nov 30, 2006
Location: Portland, OR

Link to "My new Gaggia Achille"by jgriff on Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:38 am

Oh yeah, Dan, Dave, Alchemist...what solution have you settled on for frothing milk and that ridiculous attachment? Honestly, that's a big turn-off when comparing it against other machines, especially something as beautiful as the Elektra MCaL. I mean, functionality aside (which I assume suffers with the wand with regard to microfoam unless you remove the attachment and do something like Dave did), a big draw for levers is simplicity, size and the beauty that accompanies a focus on the bare essentials (like a stripped down sports car or a motorcycle). Achille is good-looking, but hacking up the arm to produce microfoam like we're used to.... I'm reserving judgement. That's for those of you with more experience on the machine!

Justin
jgriff
 
Posts: 98
Joined: Nov 30, 2006
Location: Portland, OR

Link to "My new Gaggia Achille"by HB on Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:20 am

jgriff wrote:Oh yeah, Dan, Dave, Alchemist...what solution have you settled on for frothing milk and that ridiculous attachment?

Although I left it stock, I've read a few reports that the steam arm for the Rancilio Silvia fits.
Dan Kehn
User avatar
HB
 
Posts: 7589
Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Location: Cary, NC

Link to "My new Gaggia Achille"by Alchemist on Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:02 am

jgriff wrote:Oh yeah, Dan, Dave, Alchemist...what solution have you settled on for frothing milk and that ridiculous attachment?
Justin


I am in a lucky camp in that I am a straight espresso hound. I don't even know how to froth/foam/steam milk. It's a non-issue to me.

As for the flexing, you don't HAVE to support the lever with a block. Your other hand does quite nicely and is quite common on levers. It was just a neat little discovery I made. The Cremina is the only lever that I found you don't have to support. As for hacking - well, consider it a personality quirk :twisted: I am a big fan of the real meaning of "form follows function" and IMNSHO they (and most lever makers) broke or bent this rule. They went for pretty over FULLY functional. It is the one thing I love about my Cremina - it is rock steady construction and stability. Pity, of my three levers, it is my least favorite in the cup. What they did "correct" is that it doesn't slide all over the place. It is beautifully stable.

Dan, I alluded to it in the first post, but I would like to steer the thread to it. What is your take on the amount of pressure required to pull a 9 bar shot as compared to other non 58 mm baskets? At some point, I will have the answer as I already know where I am putting my pull pressure gauge (and manual 3 way valve :twisted: ). No drilling or permanent mods required :D .
John Nanci
Alchemist at large
**
LMWDP #013
User avatar
Alchemist
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Dec 22, 2005
Location: Oakland, Oregon

Link to "My new Gaggia Achille"by Alchemist on Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:25 am

Another minor "discovery" here, that isn't particularly earth shaking but that I like.

You need to pull at least two cooling shots at 2 oz each.
You generally can pull 1.5-1.75 oz shots
I tend to do a minor clean up pull (which I discard) and a full cleaning pull of 2 oz.

Add those up and you get a very nice 8 oz Americano with no wasted water and no need to boil extra water.
John Nanci
Alchemist at large
**
LMWDP #013
User avatar
Alchemist
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Dec 22, 2005
Location: Oakland, Oregon

Link to "My new Gaggia Achille"by prof_stack on Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:20 am

Alchemist wrote: ... The Cremina is the only lever that I found you don't have to support...


The Ponte Vecchio Export is also totally stable and can be operated with one arm, perhaps while the other is steaming.
LMWDP #10
Hand ground, pulled down, best around!
User avatar
prof_stack
 
Posts: 301
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Location: Seattle

Link to "My new Gaggia Achille"by HB on Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:25 am

Alchemist wrote:What is your take on the amount of pressure required to pull a 9 bar shot as compared to other non 58 mm baskets?

It haven't attempted to measure the required force. I agree, it's a little more than the Cremina. The very early model Achilles had a shorter lever, which may account for the difference Justin reports. The lever on my evaluation model is slightly longer than the Cremina's.

prof_stack wrote:The Ponte Vecchio Export is also totally stable and can be operated with one arm, perhaps while the other is steaming.

Not to quibble, but I think he refers to manual lever espresso machines, not spring levers like the Export, Lusso, Microcasa, etc. They require less pressure to cock the spring and max out around 6 bars of brew pressure versus the potential 9 bars of manual levers like the Cremina, Achille, etc.
Dan Kehn
User avatar
HB
 
Posts: 7589
Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Location: Cary, NC

Link to "My new Gaggia Achille"by cannonfodder on Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:34 pm

I am playing catch-up on the posts this weekend, I got a new T61P laptop. I am glad you are enjoying the Achille and getting some good shots.

The base flex is annoying but nothing has broken yet. I hold the portafilter with one hand and the lever with the other, then I squeeze them together, upward pressure on the portafilter and downward on the lever. That keeps the flex to a minimum. I have the Elektra lever on the espresso bar right now which has an enormous base and keeps the machine nailed to the countertop, I can pull a shot one handed on it.

The steam wand, I beat that one to death in the bench, I hated that steam wand. In the end I pulled the outer housing off the froth aid and just use the single hole inner sleeve.

Rebound time is fast, I get everything ready, including my tamped portafilter, pull my cooling flush, lock and pull the shot with next to no rebound. That is something I mentioned in the review a few times. You have to be ready, If you dilly dally around you will cook your shot.

Thank you for the kind words.
Dave Stephens
User avatar
cannonfodder
 
Posts: 4097
Joined: May 23, 2005
Location: Dayton, Oh

Link to "My new Gaggia Achille"by Levergirl on Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:10 pm

John,

Congratulations on the Achille! It's so nice to see a little Achille action on the boards. I've had one for a bit over a month now, but haven't seen too many recent posts.

I, too, would like to thank Cannonfodder for his buyer's guide. Especially loved the videos.

I am a long-time Pavoni Pro owner. Have had it since 1986. It still runs, although at the moment, it is "in the shop" getting a new pressure switch. My Dad, also a long-time Pavoni Pro owner, does all the work on it. So far, I think the only original parts left on it are the heating coil and the handle. Hey, it *is* 21 years old!

I do find that the Achille requires a bit more pressure than the Pavoni. But, I hate to admit it, the espresso out of the Achille tastes better than any I have ever made.

I hated the steam arm! (Already covered in Cannonfodder's post and his buyer's guide). Now have the inside part of the Saeco Pannarello, and that works great! Am making some beautiful, soft, microfoam with that. Before, all I got was overheated milk with almost no foam and a lot of splatter. I did, however, take the little bitty tip off the bare steam arm before applying the pannarello. It kept coming off anyway.

My machine was used, but I have had no trouble whatsoever with it. No leaks. None of the horror stories I read about.

Anyway, best of luck with your new baby!

Carolyn Messere
Levergirl
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Nov 18, 2007
Location: Miami Beach

Link to "My new Gaggia Achille"by Alchemist on Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:57 pm

Cannonfodder, yes, everything is totally ready before I do my flushes. You made that abundantly clear in the review and I followed the lesson well.

Levergirl (I keep wanting to type Leverlady), yeah, I wanted to get a touch of discussion going that was not trouble this, trouble that, etc. I am not sure if my shots so much blow away the competition but I don't have to work nearly has hard to get really great shots.

I did hit something a touch odd this morning and I don't know what to chalk it up to. A quirk, random occurance or a sweet bit of engineering forethought. For the past two days I have noted I needed to top up the boiler. This morning, about an hour after turning it on, I went to refill my reservoir and noticed the water was quite warm. Upon removing it, I saw water in the black top and bubbles issuing from the boiler cap. Damn, leak I thought. I turned it off, vented the steam, topped up the boiler, capped it and turned it back on. No leak at all. I am wondering if the sub-minimal level in the boiler caused a greater head pressure and was venting through the safety valve in the cap. Seems like the pstat would keep that from happening (I didn't notice the pressure before turning it off) but nothing else was wrong and I am running fine.

So, would a sub-min level in the boiler cause a greater pressure and be venting out of the cap?
John Nanci
Alchemist at large
**
LMWDP #013
User avatar
Alchemist
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Dec 22, 2005
Location: Oakland, Oregon

Link to "My new Gaggia Achille"by mogogear on Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:59 pm

A late congrats John! I have followed the thread and enjoy the "read"

Glad Santa made it early this year!
greg moore

Leverwright
LMWDP #067
User avatar
mogogear
 
Posts: 1436
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Location: NEPDX

Link to "My new Gaggia Achille"by HB on Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:05 pm

Alchemist wrote:Upon removing it, I saw water in the black top and bubbles issuing from the boiler cap. Damn, leak I thought. I turned it off, vented the steam, topped up the boiler, capped it and turned it back on. No leak at all. I am wondering if the sub-minimal level in the boiler caused a greater head pressure and was venting through the safety valve in the cap.

No, the pressurestat doesn't care about the boiler level. The small leak may indicate an iffy rubber seal on the boiler cap.
Dan Kehn
User avatar
HB
 
Posts: 7589
Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Location: Cary, NC

Next

Return to Lever Espresso Machines

cron