My La Pavoni is dead - Page 3

[Gatewood]

Now, the big news is that the piston is out! I used the little round tube-like thing that one of the lever pins fits in to force it out (fairly gently) with my rubber mallet. The intake hole is nowhere near the tube, and I do think that's got to be a problem. It also seems that it's too high; the piston doesn't clear it. My piston isn't unscrewed at all from the shaft, and that was what the original problem was thought to be. I think it's the intake hole. Maybe the sleeve has shifted down? Or something. Now, I just got this thing in February. Do you really think I need to replace everything? I will, if necessary, and I'll replace the piston with brass things if necessary, too, but I'm not sure they will replace it exactly. In other words, maybe the fit is a bit different? I don't know.

Took a photo of the innards. There's some grey ooky stuff around the hole the shaft goes through. The intake hole is straight down. Although I downsized the photo a lot, I think you can probably see it.
OK, no go. The upload image thing isn't doing anything. I'll try it from my mac. edit: Yaay! Got it!



I just measured the depth of the piston and the intake hole. It blocks the hole when pulled back up. What next? The sleeve is fitting all the way on the bottom of the thing it sits in, and would have to be pulled down to allow the hole to be exposed, and that would push out the basket.

[AndersNygaard]

Hi Gatewood, I just took my Pavoni apart, to see if I could help you. Is it the same generation as yours. My piston does not clear the intake hole either, but I have no problems with water flow. My intake hole is also misaligned with the tube, and I think it is supposed to be like that. I think the water is supposed to flow behind the plastic sleeve to heat up the group head. I think you may have some problems between the plastic sleeve and the group head. Try to push the piston all the way in, and then blow through the tube. If you have a block between the plastic sleeve and the group head, no air will escape from the intake hole. Remember the tube has to be in, as the plastic sleeve is open at the top. This may sound a little confusing, so let me know if I should explain further.

Smile

/Anders

[Gatewood]

I don't think I understand. I just got the piston out, and I'm supposed to put it back in? Ooooooo. Anyhow, why can't I just blow through the tube and if air goes in, all should be OK? I just did that, and air goes in, but I can't tell if it's coming out the intake hole. I don't really think it is. So, I really do need to put that piston back? Can I block the hole some other way?

[bill]

Hi Gatewood,
I haven't been following this thread too closely since I've no experience with the newer model Pavonis. You may have already tried this, but it looks to me like that plastic sleeve can be removed, probably by unscrewing it. That may be what those two slots in the end are for.

[Gatewood]

Hi Gatewood,
I haven't been following this thread too closely since I've no experience with the newer model Pavonis. You may have already tried this, but it looks to me like that plastic sleeve can be removed, probably by unscrewing it. That may be what those two slots in the end are for.

I did try; I think it would take a special tool if it does unscrew, but it's very, very tight.

Anders, I tried to stop the top of the group with my finger and blow through the tube, and air does come out the intake hole. Maybe I just need to put this whole thing back together and see if it's working. I doubt it is, though. I will order replacement parts before I do any more damage.

[AndersNygaard]

Hi Gatewood, there is really no other good way to test this. You have to put the piston back. If it is very difficult to do, something is wrong. My piston moves very easily in and out of the plastic sleeve. The problem is that the sleeve is open at the top, allowing air to escape that way. Did you post pictures of your piston, I don't remember. Maybe it reveals something.

You should not try to remove the sleeve unless you are sure the problem lies behind it. It is not screwed in, but held by a gasket.

Smile

/Anders

[bill]

I thought you'd probably tried it. You're right in not forcing it. Hopefully someone with experience taking the sleeve out can help. I do think it needs to be removed to see what the problem is. My bet is it's something very simple! You should be back to sipping espresso in no time.
By the way, how did you like the coffee from Cafe Fresco?

[Gatewood]

Hi Gatewood, there is really no other good way to test this. You have to put the piston back. If it is very difficult to do, something is wrong. My piston moves very easily in and out of the plastic sleeve. The problem is that the sleeve is open at the top, allowing air to escape that way. Did you post pictures of your piston, I don't remember. Maybe it reveals something.

You should not try to remove the sleeve unless you are sure the problem lies behind it. It is not screwed in, but held by a gasket.

Smile

/Anders

I'm going to try. However, from the schematic, I'm missing a gasket at the top. In my photo, the grey gunk around the hole the shaft goes through is hard and crumbly. Maybe it's the decaying remains of the missing gasket? OK, so it's not, but why don't I have anything between that brass thing with the gunk in it and my piston top? Photos of piston:

'

[Gatewood]

Piston is back in, tube is in, I blew in the tube, and air goes through. But it's not going through freely. I have to puff a little, but it definitely does go through. And what a job it was to get the gasket on the piston to go back where it came from! I did try the butter; it helped.

What advice do any of you have for my next step? I have several burning questions:

1. Do I really have to replace all the gaskets? What about the one going from the tube?

2. Do I need to get brass piston thingies? Will they truly fit?

3. How do I order from espressoparts when their schematic is nothing like mine? Should I just call?

4. Help.

Thanks for all your help, all of you, so far. I might get through this yet. I'd love for my Pavoni to be functional again. I like Brikka, but it's not the be all and end all.

[AndersNygaard]

Gatewood, I am not sure I understand you. Your piston looks fine, and the top of the group head also looks fine. When you look into the group head, you should see a retainer clip around the center hole. If this is in place, the gasket is probably also there somewhere. Maybe you are confusing the gasket used to hold the plastic sleeve (the top large gasket in the exploded view on Pavoni's home page), with the small one at the top of the group head.

I cannot find the cable for my digital camera (just moved), so I cannot post pictures of my own. I will look for it later tonight, but in the meanwhile you should try to put the piston back in, and blow. Start with the piston all the way up. You should be able to blow freely, and the air will escape only through the small hole in the plastic sleeve. Then, while blowing, lower the piston until it blocks the little hole, and you feel the flow of air is restricted.

If you are not able to blow freely with the piston at the top, your machine are somehow blocked between the sleeve and the group head. Then you have to remove the sleeve, but we will cross that bridge when we come to it

Smile

/Anders

[AndersNygaard]

Gatewood, I think you might have one of two problems. Your piston gaskets are too tight, and blocks the small intake hole, even when not unscrewed, or you have something blocking the flow between sleeve and group head. I believe it is the latter one. You could try to descale the group head while it is removed from the machine. This may work.

Smile

/Anders

[Gatewood]

OK, took the piston back out again. It isn't getting any easier, but I did it. No retaining clip unless it's the same brass as the group head. Just the greyish powdery stuff. Looks more and more like the corpse of the gasket.

I can blow air through. It stops when the piston is part the way down.

edit: whoa! Just scraped around the powdery stuff. There's something under there! Probably a retaining ring and a gasket! I'll try to remove the grey stuff. It's pretty thick. It would block the piston from traveling all the way up.

[Gatewood]

I thought you'd probably tried it. You're right in not forcing it. Hopefully someone with experience taking the sleeve out can help. I do think it needs to be removed to see what the problem is. My bet is it's something very simple! You should be back to sipping espresso in no time.
By the way, how did you like the coffee from Cafe Fresco?

I didn't get any more crema with it than I did with my home roasted stuff. But remember, I was already having problems with the water coming through to the puck. My last shot was only 1/4 oz. So, I'll try the Ambrosia again when my Pavoni is operational.
I've ordered new gaskets (ruined one of the piston ones putting the piston back in. It's not as easy as maybe it should be), a new o-ring, some Joe Glo, and gaskets to the intake tube. Not sure if I need those, but ordered them anyhow. Now we wait. I don't see any way in heaven or hell (can I say that here?) to take that sleeve out. I don't think I'm going there. Let's just pray all is well back of it.

[bill]

I don't see any way in heaven or hell (can I say that here?) to take that sleeve out. I don't think I'm going there. Let's just pray all is well back of it.

I think from what Anders said you're best off to leave the sleeve until removing it is a last resort.
By the way, if it makes you feel any better I sold my Palanca last week leaving me only with an Elektra that's completely disassembled and needing a complete rebuild, a Conti Prestina that I've taken apart to replace the gaskets that aren't here yet, and a pod machine I borrowed from my son. So you know what I'm drinking now! At least the pod is better then Starbucks, but not by much.

[AndersNygaard]

Hi Gatewood, the space my piston travels before it blocks the intake hole completely, is only a few milimeters. If your powdery grey stuff prevents the piston from being pushed all the way up, this could easily be the problem. My group head was perfectly clean the first time I took it apart (which was after just 4 months of use), no build-up of scale anywhere. When I bought the Pavoni, I was told that it was only neccesary to descale the boiler, but after looking at the design of the group head, I decided to descale it as well. The grouphead was still perfectly clean inside when I took it apart last night.

Smile

/Anders

[kbuzbee]

At least the pod is better then Starbucks, but not by much.

Bill, you don't have to choose, you can have the best of both worlds.... Starbucks Pods

Ken

[bill]

Bill, you don't have to choose, you can have the best of both worlds.... Starbucks Pods

Ken

My wife stopped by Starbucks on the way home yesterday and picked up two boxes of pods. Life is "good".

[Gatewood]

Om'gosh! Starbucks pods! Will wonders never cease. Don't think I'll go there. My Gaggia Classic got here last night, too late to do anything with it, but I'll play with it today as I look over the completely disassembled group head of my poor corpse. I took off one of the piston gaskets (it had a little tear that I had inflicted when I put the piston back in) to see how easy it would be. It's doable; but not going to be a piece of cake. I'll have to be super careful when putting all this back together. My parts have been shipped, so I'll not do anything else until they get here. I got some Joe Glo, too, so I can get the grey stuff out. Wonder if it will affect the brass finish? I'll have to soak the whole thing to get to it.

Anders, I don't understand. You say the piston only travels a few millimeters before it blocks the hole. Mine has the hole blocked when it's up all the way (although the grey stuff might be responsible) although I can blow a little air through. It's when it's on the way down that the hole is blocked so that I can't blow air through. Is this correct? Do you ever actually see the intake hole when the piston is all the way up?

[Jacob]

After 4 years of abuse the piston in my Pro broke.
I replaced the piston with a brass piston from the local Pavoni distributor (I sold the 'new' machine so I don't know how the new piston behaves).
I found this drawing very useful for ordering parts: http://www.osterlandskthehus.dk/u...laProfessional.pdf

My group head was perfectly clean the first time I took it apart (which was after just 4 months of use), no build-up of scale anywhere. When I bought the Pavoni, I was told that it was only necessary to descale the boiler

My head were still pretty clean after four double shots a day for four years!

I'm told that the two lever pivot pins are supposed to be strait?

[Gatewood]

After 4 years of abuse the piston in my Pro broke.
I replaced the piston with a brass piston from the local Pavoni distributor (I sold the 'new' machine so I don't know how the new piston behaves).
I found this drawing very useful for ordering parts: http://www.osterlandskthehus.dk/u...laProfessional.pdf



My head were still pretty clean after four double shots a day for four years!

I'm told that the two lever pivot pins are supposed to be strait?
image: http://www.home-barista.com/forums/userpix/1149_PavoniPins_1.jpg

Man, those look rough! Mine are straight, and shiny. Yours look rusted. Not sure how that is possible.