My HB birthday Cimbali arrived!!

[cannonfodder]

I got home from work today expecting to have a big box in the kitchen. No luck, it was still on the UPS delivery truck. While I am upstairs changing I hear the dog bark, I grin ear to ear. A few moments later the wife calls out 'you have a delivery, what did you get?' to which I reply 'cups!'. An awkward moment of silence, aaa, this is not a box of cups??!!. I am grinning so hard my face is going to break.

So I come down stairs and there it sits on the kitchen table. A BIG box, so I meander over, give it a look. Hmm, man, they did it again! I have to quit ordering cups from Chris Coffee. Every time I order cups they send me a grinder! I got my Mazzer from him not quite a year ago and used the same line.

Thankfully she got a chuckle out of it and none of my blood was spilled.

This guy is hefty. It outweighs my Mazzer by several pounds. It is about the same size as my Mini. That squat bean hopper is deceiving, it holds a good pound of beans. It may be a little bigger than the hopper on the Mini P. It feels like there is more packed into smaller package than the MM.





I hook it all up and grind my first shot. The Cimbali has larger burrs than the Mini so I was expecting it to fly through the dose. I was somewhat disappointed in the grind speed. The grinder was still set on 2, which is where it was out of the box. So I start my level. The grinds feel finer than I am use to. Upon closer inspection, that was more a Turkish grind, power like, now I am impressed. A couple of grinds later, I have it dialed in. Noticeably faster grind than my Mini and a pretty good shot.

So I guess this means I have officially gone over the edge and there is no turning back at this point. A lever machine, Cimbali Jr and a two group commercial machine in the kitchen. I should probably seek professional help...

[doleeo]

I love my cimbali, I got an outrageous deal on it from chris' it was only $375, it was a return with the finger guard cut out of the doser, I really like the on off switch, I like the positioning and the doser is really clean with no mods! I did find the tamp to be a little obtrusive when it came to removing my portafilter after dosing, but all you need to do is take it off! I think more people should look into the Cimbali, I seem to think it's under rated.

[cannonfodder]

I have already removed the tamper on the front and I think the finger guard will be next. Not being able to sweep out the grind shoot is annoying. Thanks to Chris and the HB birthday special, I got it for 395, brand-spanking new.

I really like the micro grind adjustment. It only gets used for espresso so having rapid wide adjustments, like the Mazzer adjustment ring, is not needed. It grinds faster and quieter than my Mazzer. I was surprised at the inertia that the larger burrs carry. With no load, the burrs take several more seconds to spin down vs. the Mini.

My first few hours' impression of the grinder; I think the Mazzer has a more solid feel but that is probably due to the large, solid aluminum case vs. the Cimbali's stainless shell. However, the Cimbali appears to be easier to work on because you can remove the shell from the frame. With a Mazzer, you have to drop the guts out of the housing.

I have not looked at the burr carriers so I do not know how difficult it would be to change the burrs in the Cimbali; the Mazzer is incredibly easy to change. But given the duty cycle of the Cimbali, it will be years before I have to replace them. The Cimbali also appears to not throw the grinds as far to the left as my Mazzer does when whacking the doser. I also like the push button power switch located in the front of the machine just under the doser lever. That way you can push the power button with your thumb while dosing.

Cimbali Jr verses the Mazzer Mini, the Cimbali defiantly seems more full time business and the Mini more of a backup production grinder. The larger burrs, automatic doser fill and doser counter help emphasize that point. I am sure both grinders will serve me well for a lifetime. The Mini is going to support my Isomac at my office and my Gaggia MDF will go up for sale.

[Ken Fox]

I have already removed the tamper on the front and I think the finger guard will be next. Not being able to sweep out the grind shoot is annoying. Thanks to Chris and the HB birthday special, I got it for 395, brand-spanking new.

It's a great grinder. Far be it from me to dissuade you from "modding" something you have already bought, but be advised that you can easily clean out the chute with a chop stix, coming in from the sides of the finger guards. The next time you eat in an Asian restaurant, ask for another free pair of disposable chopstix and you will be set for life.

ken

[bobroseman]

I used a dremel to cut the finger guard off of my Junior but it probably wasn't necessary. I just grind a couple of grams of coffee and dump them, if the grinder has been sitting for awhile.

Bob

[cannonfodder]

The chop stick is an interesting idea. I am currently using a long bristle brush. It is about the diameter of a pencil. I was thinking of something with a 45 degree bend so I could work from either side of the doser.

I am using a combination of both yours and Bob's idea. I have been cleaning out the chute with the brush and then giving it a two second pulse to clean out any remaining grounds.

It may still meet my Dremel at a later date. I do not believe I have one piece of equipment that has not been modified to some extent. I even returned the handle on my generic tamper to better fit my hand. My HB tamper may be the only unmodified device that I have.

Any other words of wisdom as to any specific quirks the grinder has will be appreciated.

[bobroseman]

I don't know of any quirks per se.

You're really going to like the worm gear grind adjustment though. It is capable of minute adjustments. You can easily play games with your grind and brew times. For example, if you have adjusted the grind for a 25 second 2 oz double and you want to see how a 25 sec 1.75 oz shot will change the taste, you can. This is very useful for a home roaster, who might want to explore different extraction times for different degrees of roast.

Bob

[wmfamily]

You dog!! You live a couple states closer to you get yours a day earlier. I'm supposed to get mine tomorrow and can't wait.

Continued good luck with yours.

John

[mikep]

Any other words of wisdom as to any specific quirks the grinder has will be appreciated.

The only little quirk I can think of is in the path from the hopper to the burrs. If you look down there you will see there is a slight "shelf" that the beans can get caught up on. It may be more of an annoyance for folks that load up only enough beans for each shot in the hopper. I know some folks slip an appropriately sized tube in the hopper throat to try to eliminate this possible detour for the beans.

[OkcEspresso]

If, for some reason, your wife drops a veto or some other ultimatum and you need to makeup by getting rid of something, I'll make a sacrifice for a coffee friend and buy that Cimbali for what you paid.



Chris

[cannonfodder]

I don't know of any quirks per se.

You're really going to like the worm gear grind adjustment though. It is capable of minute adjustments. You can easily play games with your grind and brew times. For example, if you have adjusted the grind for a 25 second 2 oz double and you want to see how a 25 sec 1.75 oz shot will change the taste, you can. This is very useful for a home roaster, who might want to explore different extraction times for different degrees of roast.

Bob

I roast 99% of my beans and do a fair amount of exploring the dose/time/temp realm. The Mini was not to difficult to make minute adjustments to either, you just have to have a firm grip and steady hand, but the worm gear is so simple and easy to use.

The only little quirk I can think of is in the path from the hopper to the burrs. If you look down there you will see there is a slight "shelf" that the beans can get caught up on. It may be more of an annoyance for folks that load up only enough beans for each shot in the hopper. I know some folks slip an appropriately sized tube in the hopper throat to try to eliminate this possible detour for the beans.

Interesting, I had not noticed that yet but I have had the bean feed slow a couple of times. I do not keep more than a day or two in the hopper. I noticed that the grinding slowed to almost to a stop twice. I thought that I had pushed the hopper feed shutoff to off. On the Mazzer, in is off, on the Cimbali in is on. Then you would hear the beans drop and continue. This batch is full city + with a fair amount of surface oil which is probably aggravating the situation slightly. If it becomes an issue I may look into it further.

If, for some reason, your wife drops a veto or some other ultimatum and you need to makeup by getting rid of something, I'll make a sacrifice for a coffee friend and buy that Cimbali for what you paid.

I bet you would. She is pretty understanding and does not complain about my espresso habit very often. It is a hobby I enjoy and it keeps me occupied and out of her hair. Unless I want to bug her, then I will take a pitcher of water and open the steam valve on the machine. There is one spot that will cause the pitcher to squeal, very, very noisy. I particularly enjoy doing that while she is watching TV.

You dog!! You live a couple states closer to you get yours a day earlier. I'm supposed to get mine tomorrow and can't wait.

I am heading off to the hills for spring turkey hunting season so I only get a few days with it. No coffee where I am going, or computers, paved roads, phones, running water. One week of solitude, me, dad, shotguns, fishing poles and a tent

[jesawdy]

Dave (and others)-

Did you end up removing the finger guard? And if so, how much plastic did you hack away?

I just got a used Cimbali Junior Grinder, and I like it... unfortunately, I spent a good bit of a day using a Mazzer Luigi (Major?), and well, that is a NICE machine, but perhaps not as practical, especially given the machine size and especially the hopper size.

A couple of questions for you Cimbali grinder owners out there:

Doser vanes - The doser vanes seem to sweep pretty good, not having owned or modded a doser grinder, do you think it worth trying to tighten the tolerance at all, or use "black tape wipers" to get it to sweep any better?

Finger guard - this would be my biggest complaint of this machine... the finger guard is more than just obtrusive, they really don't want you to sweep the chute on this baby. At first glance, just cutting the tab of the finger guard that points down does not seem like it would be enough. It seems to me you would need to hack away the plastic between he downward tab all the way back to the grinder exit chute. My thought was to make the little plastic "top" behind the doser lid removable, hacking away any plastic beneath it (which is part of the doser's top trim ring, and behind the integrated finger guard.) Good idea? Overkill? (I'll try to get some pics of the parts in question tomorrow.)

Burrs - What is the expected life of burrs for this machine? I'm not sure of the complete history of this machine... the burrs seem pretty good for now.

Hopper shut off - I don't see much of a point to the hopper shut off for a non removable hopper. Is anyone using this feature to some advantage?

Stepless? - Since the grind adjustment worm gear knob likes to 'click' into a position, is this machine truly stepless? Can you leave the worm gear knob between clicks and it stay there? Or is the range of motion between the clicks so slight, you'd never need to be between them?

More impressions tomorrow... I have it torn down right now for cleaning and inspection. I'll probably put it back together stock, and deal with it that way for a bit before I go hacking at it.

As a side note, my current grinder is a Rocky Doserless.... and I must say for the first time buyers out there, you should NOT fear the doser... I think the doser does a lot to avoid clumping, especially if you click-click-click fast. That is enough reason alone to want a doser in my book. Also, it is pretty darn easy to clear the doser between grind adjustments without wasting a lot of beans, especially without the timer switch, although the timer switch on the Mazzer is easy enough to turn off.

-Jeff

[Ken Fox]

Dave (and others)-

Did you end up removing the finger guard? And if so, how much plastic did you hack away?

I just got a used Cimbali Junior Grinder, and I like it... unfortunately, I spent a good bit of a day using a Mazzer Luigi (Major?), and well, that is a NICE machine, but perhaps not as practical, especially given the machine size and especially the hopper size.

A couple of questions for you Cimbali grinder owners out there:

Doser vanes - The doser vanes seem to sweep pretty good, not having owned or modded a doser grinder, do you think it worth trying to tighten the tolerance at all, or use "black tape wipers" to get it to sweep any better?

Finger guard - this would be my biggest complaint of this machine... the finger guard is more than just obtrusive, they really don't want you to sweep the chute on this baby. At first glance, just cutting the tab of the finger guard that points down does not seem like it would be enough. It seems to me you would need to hack away the plastic between he downward tab all the way back to the grinder exit chute. My thought was to make the little plastic "top" behind the doser lid removable, hacking away any plastic beneath it (which is part of the doser's top trim ring, and behind the integrated finger guard.) Good idea? Overkill? (I'll try to get some pics of the parts in question tomorrow.)

Burrs - What is the expected life of burrs for this machine? I'm not sure of the complete history of this machine... the burrs seem pretty good for now.

Hopper shut off - I don't see much of a point to the hopper shut off for a non removable hopper. Is anyone using this feature to some advantage?

Stepless? - Since the grind adjustment worm gear knob likes to 'click' into a position, is this machine truly stepless? Can you leave the worm gear knob between clicks and it stay there? Or is the range of motion between the clicks so slight, you'd never need to be between them?

More impressions tomorrow... I have it torn down right now for cleaning and inspection. I'll probably put it back together stock, and deal with it that way for a bit before I go hacking at it.

As a side note, my current grinder is a Rocky Doserless.... and I must say for the first time buyers out there, you should NOT fear the doser... I think the doser does a lot to avoid clumping, especially if you click-click-click fast. That is enough reason alone to want a doser in my book. Also, it is pretty darn easy to clear the doser between grind adjustments without wasting a lot of beans, especially without the timer switch, although the timer switch on the Mazzer is easy enough to turn off.

-Jeff

No, it is not worth trying to mod the doser. If you are paranoid like me then grind a gram of coffee each time you haven't used it for a few hours and use the doser with these fresh grinds to clean the doser.

Use a chop stix to go in from the sides and in the center (at the notch in the finger guard) to clean out the chute that collects grounds going from the grind chamber into the doser (the other chute, from the doser, does not seem to collect grounds). For the life of me I cannot understand the fixation people have with this finger guard. If you would use a chop stick or similar tool you would find that in 4 seconds, max, you can clean out the chute just as easily from the sides and below, as you can any other grinder with or without finger guard. The next time you visit an Asian restaurant, take a pair of the disposable wood chop stix with you, a lifetime supply for your grinder. Grinders are going to collect grounds in a chute like this; just because there is a small quantity of grinds adherent around the periphery of the chute does not mean these grinds are hanging there to go into your next cup of espresso. Once stuck the overwhelming majority of these grinds will just sit there until you disrupt them in cleaning; the chute will remain open with a central patency and that is where the coffee will come out. I would not advise a home user to clean this chute more than once a week. Doing so will (perhaps) make you feel cleaner, like the person who washes his hands 100x per day, but in reality you will just waste coffee in the process and end up no better than this compulsive handwasher who gets only red, bleeding hands as his reward. It is like some of the nonsense I read on coffee boards about disassembling grinders regularly for cleaning, as if cleaning up the grindstones regularly is going to result in fresher grounds going into the cup. If you use your grinder regularly this sort of compulsive cleanliness is going to get you absolutely nowhere, although if you have a lot of time on your hands, more power to you.

I'm not sure what the burr life is but it is at least several hundred pounds at optimal performance and likely twice that at an acceptable level.

The grinder has such a huge range of fine adjustments that I am certain you will not have a problem finding the exact grind size you need for making shots with whatever type of coffee you are using. Wherever you put the grinder adjustment it will stay in my opinion. Because the ambient temperature and humidity change during the day, however, it will need frequent adjustment unless you are grinding decaf which offers consistency with sub par results.

It is a good grinder and hacking it will not produce better shots, if that is what you seek.

ken

[jesawdy]

For the life of me I cannot understand the fixation people have with this finger guard.

Ken-

Thanks for the response and all your points. As I said, I think I will use the machine stock as designed to see if I find anything annoying to the way I like to work.

I suspect the fixation on the finger guard may come from seeing Mazzer dosers with the guards removed. On the Mazzer Major I was using the other day, with the doser lid off, you can clearly see what is going on at the grinder chute exit... I actually liked that as much from a cleaning issue as well as a way to see where your grind is at. You can actually see if you are way off, too fine/too course. And yes, as you mentioned, the majority of the coffee that sticks in the chute appears to stays put, and the fresh coffee tunnels through. In stark contrast, on the Cimbali, you're not going to watch the exit chute of the grinder, not only becuase of the finger guard, but also because of the half moon design of the doser lid, which leaves an inch or so of plastic cover over the doser just below the grind setting indicator. When one wants to be compulsive on the Mazzer, you can use a smallish paintbrush and sweep it out.

Maybe I'll get over it! Thanks again for your comments.

-Jeff

[Ken Fox]

Ken-

Thanks for the response and all your points. As I said, I think I will use the machine stock as designed to see if I find anything annoying to the way I like to work.

I suspect the fixation on the finger guard may come from seeing Mazzer dosers with the guards removed. On the Mazzer Major I was using the other day, with the doser lid off, you can clearly see what is going on at the grinder chute exit... I actually liked that as much from a cleaning issue as well as a way to see where your grind is at. You can actually see if you are way off, too fine/too course. And yes, as you mentioned, the majority of the coffee that sticks in the chute appears to stays put, and the fresh coffee tunnels through. In stark contrast, on the Cimbali, you're not going to watch the exit chute of the grinder, not only becuase of the finger guard, but also because of the half moon design of the doser lid, which leaves an inch or so of plastic cover over the doser just below the grind setting indicator. When one wants to be compulsive on the Mazzer, you can use a smallish paintbrush and sweep it out.

Maybe I'll get over it! Thanks again for your comments.

-Jeff

It's a really nice grinder and I'm sure you will enjoy owning it. If you have any questions about the burrs, being as you bought it used, replacing them would not be a bad idea.

I don't find the appearance of grinds to be that useful for espresso because (at least where I live where the ambient environmental factors seem to change every 2 hours), what "looked good" earlier on in the day may still "look good," but it won't necessarily produce a decent shot

ken

[niad]

I use a straw and "brush" with it in the chute and then i give it a blow and it's perfectly cleaned out. I sometimes go round the doser chamber with one or two blows to get all the grinds where it should be before dosing down into the filter. Got this tip here or maybe on Coffeegeek i think.

[jesawdy]

Well, I've got it all back together, and I can rest easier knowing that any gunk, grime and grinds in, on, and around the grinder will now be my own!

WOW!! Nice! Anybody need a Rocky?

Zero is about zero and started at 4, worked myself down in 0.25 steps and settled at 3.5 for the moment.... All the shots were drinkable, only the first one was a bit too fast. Well, all the mantra about the grinder comes first seems to hold true. I am using this with Silvia right now, and there is a much different appearance of the crema (more uniform and a tad darker), and much more body in the cup. Taste is definitely different, at the moment I am going to say "smoother" (whatever that means to you) and a bit more mild. Better? The jury is out right now, I think that it isn't "better" yet, at least on my daily blend because I am using less ground coffee (I think). I didn't break out the scales yet, but I think I am dosing about 2-3 grams or so less at the moment, based on the appearance at the final tamp. With Rocky, I've been dosing close to 18 grams or so. I wouldn't be too surprised to find myself at 14 grams right now with the Cimbali. The Cimbali's grind is superbly uniform, and it must be nicely fluffed and declumped in comparison to Rocky doserless. I can start with a much more heaped basket, updose that a bit in sweeping, and still finish with much less coffee in the basket based on appearance at final tamp.

The manufacture date on the grinder is 2005, so I am going to assume that the burrs are plenty good for now... I don't think it has had any commercial use in it's history. I bought it from a CG'r, and I think he had gotten from a CG'r or eBay. It's condition would not indicate heavy use.

No more comments on the finger guard yet.

-Jeff

[cannonfodder]

I never cut the finger guard tabs off for a couple of reasons. One, she sprays grinds, those tabs deflect the flying grinds down. Otherwise the coffee would spray against the front of the doser. I have a small round brush with long bristles (about the size of a pencil and 1 ¼ inch long bristles). I can insert that brush from the left side of the guard, give it a twist while pulling it out, insert from the right, twist while removing then a quick one second pulse to clear what is left.

The doser sweeps so clean, modifying it pretty much pointless.

The hopper shut off is somewhat of an enigma, I have used it once.

I love my grinder. In fact, if I ever get another or replace the Mini, I will be getting another Cimbali Jr, provided I don't do something silly like get a conical Mazzer.

That worm gear does have a 'click' but you can run it between clicks. However, one half revolution is such a small adjustment you will probably never go between clicks. I am talking very, very, very small adjustments which is why this makes an exceptional espresso grinder. I believe I remember seeing that from zero to wide open takes several hundred revolutions of that knob. My zero is right at zero and I also run in the 3.5-4.5 range with most blends.

One thing that puts this apart from my Mazzer, the push button power, no stupid timer. The switch is under the doser right beside the doser lever so you can push it with your thumb while dosing. It also comes apart so easily for repairs, which you have already noted (ok, so that is two things).

[peechdogg]

I have just done my first trials with the Cimbali JR I picked up on ebay. So far, I'm loving it, but wanted to adjust the amount of grounds distributed by the doser. It seems I can't get the knob to depress so I can do this. Is there some trick I'm missing here?

[jesawdy]

I have just done my first trials with the Cimbali JR I picked up on ebay. So far, I'm loving it, but wanted to adjust the amount of grounds distributed by the doser. It seems I can't get the knob to depress so I can do this. Is there some trick I'm missing here?

It is easy to turn the adjustment counter-clockwise (increasing the dose), but much less so the other way. You kinda need to hold or brace the sweeper arms in place, and then turn clock-wise to to decrease the dose.

I do not use the doser though, just thwack-thwack while grinding.