My first post - and my first day with a new espresso machine!

[hCon]

Hello home baristas,
I'd like to introduce myself to the crowd with this short post on my first day with my new machine - the La Vibiemme Domobar Super Levetta. I have a Macap M5 to accompany the machine.

Being a noob in the barista arts, I've probably shot too high with my latest purchase. Coming from a cheap Gaggia so simple it didn't even feature an OPV, I am now trying to learn to know the Vibiemme, the HX and all the new factors.

I started out this morning reading the "dialing in...", "better extraction...", "how I learned to love HX..." and "Vibiemme Benchmark and review...". The knowledge I gained from those threads gave me the courage to pull a few shots, but I was scared back to this forum by the tastes.

This evening (it's past midnight here now) I gave it another try and got my wife with me to assist with taking notes and counting the seconds. The first thing we did was to start working with the temperature. The top of the cycle was around 1.05 bar. We watched the "water dance" video a few times and then set out experimenting. The time it took to get the water, hissing and steam to calm down from the idle period was around 40 seconds. We kept on flushing for another 10 seconds, I did my tamping and stuff and then we brewed a very hot espresso. Black rim, the cup was so hot I couldn't grasp it.

We did another four brewings, and increased the cooling flush to 15, 20, 25 and 30 seconds. At 30 seconds the cup was possible to grasp, but still felt unnaturally hot.

I decided to lower the pressurestat to 0.95 bar. This helped tremendously on the brewing temperature. The target brewing temperature for the beans I am using is 200F (93.5C). We pulled a few more shots and worked on dialling in the mentioned temp. At 20-22 seconds cooling flush (that is the time from after the water dance ends) and 30 seconds for filling the basket at tamping, the resulting brewing temp seems OK. I suspect the manometer (?) isn't very well calibrated, the water seems to be to hot compared to the 0.95 bar pressure...

At this point we started to work with the dosing and grinding. I have the stepless doser and I work the adjustment screw in quarter turns. The recommended dose (for the coffee brand) is 19.5 grams. I found that using that much coffee conflicted with the shower screen. At 16-17 grams I was able to slip a coin between the tamped coffee and the screen. We pulled 8 new shots, from one round coarser to one round finer, and even though the finer ones were the visually better shots, the coarser ones the tastiest. The extraction time varied from 22 to 29 seconds, and the amount in the cup from 1.7 to 2 ounces.

A couple of words about the coffee I use. I bet some of you know about Tim Wendelboe. I buy my coffee directly from him, it's his own blend and roast, with the very original name "Tim Wendelboe Espresso". I bought 2.2 pounds of beans that was roasted 9 days ago, and 2.2 pounds that was roasted 5 days ago. Today I spent the whole lot of the eldest roast!

I know what to expect from the beans, but I am nowhere near yet. Where do I go from here? The coffee starts dripping after 5-6 seconds, and I feel that it is a little too early. I don't own an open portafilter and all the shops in town are sold out, so I must continue to work in blind on that part. I feel unsure that I have hit the correct temperature, but I don't have any instruments to measure the brewing temp. The machine was delivered with the OPV set to open at 12 bars, I have adjusted it down to show 9.8-10 when I am brewing.

Thanks!

[quiltmaster]

WOW! When you upgrade, you upgrade!

[Abe Carmeli]

Here is the long and short way of getting you to a better espresso. The short: Get a thermometer like an Omega ($80.00) and get an E61 Group Thermocouple fitting from EricS. That will solve all your guessing as to your brew temperature, and you can put the water dance to sleep. Without a window to your real brew temperature, it may take way too long for you to get your espresso legs. Once this is done, work on dosage and extraction time. Start with 15 gram dose and go up and down from that dosage by increments of 1/2 gram. Keep your shot time at 25 seconds. Once you like the dosage, start altering extraction time by a few seconds to each direction.

The long way is not to get any instruments, and work by taste alone. That may be long indeed, but you may struck gold sooner than expected.

[ByronA]

This evening (it's past midnight here now) I gave it another try and got my wife with me to assist with taking notes and counting the seconds. The first thing we did was to start working with the temperature. The top of the cycle was around 1.05 bar. We watched the "water dance" video a few times and then set out experimenting. The time it took to get the water, hissing and steam to calm down from the idle period was around 40 seconds. We kept on flushing for another 10 seconds, I did my tamping and stuff and then we brewed a very hot espresso. Black rim, the cup was so hot I couldn't grasp it.

We did another four brewings, and increased the cooling flush to 15, 20, 25 and 30 seconds. At 30 seconds the cup was possible to grasp, but still felt unnaturally hot.

I decided to lower the pressurestat to 0.95 bar. This helped tremendously on the brewing temperature. The target brewing temperature for the beans I am using is 200F (93.5C). We pulled a few more shots and worked on dialling in the mentioned temp. At 20-22 seconds cooling flush (that is the time from after the water dance ends) and 30 seconds for filling the basket at tamping, the resulting brewing temp seems OK. I suspect the manometer (?) isn't very well calibrated, the water seems to be to hot compared to the 0.95 bar pressure...

I think your problem may be here. I was doing very similar with mine, and getting very inconsistent results until I read a thread that JonR10 responded to. He suggests pulling the cooling flush for a minimum of (I think) 40 seconds, while tamping and preparing the portafilter, and then pulling a short cooling flush with the portafilter in hand. As soon as the flush is complete, drop in the portafilter and start.

It seems it takes a lot less time than we think for the water in the HX to get too hot. Remember...the cold water is actually just flowing through the HX pipe through the boiler, and that is sufficient to heat it up. Imagine how hot it is getting while sitting there idle. It made a big difference in my cup.

I think you also need to look at the numbers as guidance, rather than a rule written in stone. If you follow the 25 second pour, just remember that it may take slightly more or slightly less time. Also, how are you tamping? Over all, I think if your OPV and boiler pressure are correct, your brew numbers are pretty close. I have read differing opinions as to when you should start the timing; from the time the coffee first starts to leave the portafilter, or from the time you press the brew button. Personally, I aim for the pour to start 10 seconds after I hit the brew button, and I turn it off after 15 seconds of pour giving the lenth from hitting the brew button at 25 seconds. I am planning on making a naked portafilter, but haven't yet. I think that will help my cup the most.

[drminpa]

I use the thermometer adapter that EricS created - it made getting the hang of temperature control pretty easy on my HX machine, but I've found that you can do pretty much as well by measuring flush volume and rebound time. For my machine, flush (6oz-after idle, 2oz after 3 min) and rebound around 30 seconds gets me to 200 F every time. Other machines I've read work better with flush and pull. All machines have different HZ sizes/configurations, search for threads on your machine and see what works best. Taste should be your main guide.

[hCon]

Thanks folks. It sure is hard to get used to the HX way of brewing. I have worked the machine for many hours since my first post, but I haven't found the sweet spot yet. I am having trouble with the temperature, so I ordered the temperature thingy from EricS today. To get a decent brewing temp i have dropped the pstat to 0.8-0.85 bars. It kinda works, but I need to let the macine rest for quite a long time between the pulls, and even so the average temperature is sinking throughout the session. EricS asked me if there is a restriction orifice in the top line. I don't know, and probably not my dealer either, but I will check that tomorrow or tear the pipes apart if necessary.

Anyway, when I know about the restriction orifice, have installed the thermometer kit, bought a naked PF and worked the machine and my technique for another 50 to 100 hours, I hope that the taste will surpass the sold Gaggia (that I am missing tremendously right now).

Oh - another thing that is bugging me is the doses. How do you adjust the dose? The double basket that came with my machine seems to be designed for doses around 14-15 grams. But I'd like to dose closer to 20. If I give the PF a tiny knock before I even out the pile, I am able to get 17-18 grams in the basket, but it'll conflict with the shower screen.

[Abe Carmeli]

For high dosage (~17-18 grams) get a La Marzocco Double basket. For higher, get a triple basket.

[Abe Carmeli]

One last thing. The average double shot in the cup including crema is 1.5oz. You may want to control that variable as well once you controlled all the others. Go up to 2 oz and as low as 1.25 oz. If you are using 22 grams with a triple basket, you can go up to 3 oz lungo, and up to 40 sec per shot. Use the WDT to quickly get over the hump of proper distribution.

[hCon]

Thanks Abe,
I've bought a restriction orifice and a La Marzocco double basket today. It is very tall compared to the original Vibiemme basket - this is gonna help a lot. I haven't tried the WDT yet since I don't have a naked PF, but I'll go ahead and try it out tonight.

[JonR10]

...I read a thread that JonR10 responded to. He suggests pulling the cooling flush for a minimum of (I think) 40 seconds, while tamping and preparing the portafilter, and then pulling a short cooling flush with the portafilter in hand. As soon as the flush is complete, drop in the portafilter and start.

This comes up when new enthusiasts flush the group and then spend 2 minutes to prep the shot and then with no more temp management they pull a shot and complain that it's bitter. So I do often suggest pulling a flush with portafilter in hand after preparing the shot...

But I'd never suggest to flush before preparing the basket at all....seems like a waste of water and energy.

My own routine includes a short rebound after flushing, maybe 5-10 seconds for my usual. But depending on the blend I may pause for up to 20-25 seconds or maybe just flush-and-go immediately. I go by taste alone, but I have been considering getting one of the TC adapters - to remove the guesswork (as Abe said so well).

[ByronA]

This comes up when new enthusiasts flush the group and then spend 2 minutes to prep the shot and then with no more temp management they pull a shot and complain that it's bitter. So I do often suggest pulling a flush with portafilter in hand after preparing the shot...

But I'd never suggest to flush before preparing the basket at all....seems like a waste of water and energy.

My own routine includes a short rebound after flushing, maybe 5-10 seconds for my usual. But depending on the blend I may pause for up to 20-25 seconds or maybe just flush-and-go immediately. I go by taste alone, but I have been considering getting one of the TC adapters - to remove the guesswork (as Abe said so well).

Sorry Jon...that was my bad, writing on how I now do it since your suggestion. I find that my best results come by locking in and starting immediately after the cooling flush. However, the water is still too hot during the first 6 oz, so I have to give another 3 oz after emptying the cup before I pull a shot. I do start preparing the shot immediately upon starting the cooling flush. I have finished preparing it, or almost by the time I empty that first cup.