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Modding the behmor

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.

Link to "Modding the behmor"by popeye on Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:53 am

Has anyone replaced the thermostat of the behmor with a variac? I'm tired of mine cycling on and off and I'm tired of having to "preset and guess" using P2. I've been using a variac, but once the P2 kicks to 60%, even 131 volts doesn't do anything. Has anyone opened up a behmor? I'm thinking i'm about to.
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Link to "Modding the behmor"by farmroast on Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:08 am

I would not suggest putting more than about 122v through the Behmor or any roaster with circuit boards.
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Link to "Modding the behmor"by Marshall_S on Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:34 am

I know very little about electricity but my experience may be helpful here.

I've had a Behmor since it came out about a year ago and I've been very happy with it. I started using a Variac several months ago as a way of manipulating the profiles. Could be coincidental but I've had to replace 3 afterburners in the last couple of months (which is no picnic).

Since I stopped using the Variac I've had no problems.

It could be that I was actually causing mini power surges which kept burning out this part.

Just thought I'd pass this on - I have to agree with farm about being careful with the variac-
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Link to "Modding the behmor"by Marshall on Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:51 pm

Marshall_S wrote:...

Uh, oh. :roll:
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Link to "Modding the behmor"by shadowfax on Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:31 pm

Marshall wrote:Uh, oh. :roll:


This forum ain't big enough fer the two of us!

Rrrrrrrumble! :shock: :mrgreen:
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Link to "Modding the behmor"by ira on Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:40 pm

If you're using a variac on a Behmor I presume it's to lower the temp right ar first crack so I'd guess the right answer is P1 and turn the variac down to lower the temp and never more than 120. As long as the motors are still running I assume it's not too low, just remember to turn it back to 115 when cool kicks in.

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Link to "Modding the behmor"by drdna on Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:17 am

A variac will vary the B+ rail voltage for all the circuits in the Behmor. This includes the integrated circuits that run the LED display, regulate the timer, etc. Even if you opened up the Behmor and put the variac ONLY on heating circuit, the temperature is controlled by switching the heating coils on and off intermittently, in essence a simple "digital" on-off system with a negative feedback loop to provide regulation. It is not controlled in a continuously variable fashion to the extent that you assume.

Because of certain tolerances in the circuitry to allow for voltage spikes and surges, it is possible that you can continue to operate the Behmor using a variac, but your results will be essentially the product of bringing the circuit into a state of poor operation.

There is the distinct possibility that you will damage the machine, burn out some parts, or perhaps burn your house down. I would advise against it.

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Link to "Modding the behmor"by popeye on Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:00 am

I see not many adventurous people are out there. I'm willing to sacrifice the behmor. Burn it out, burn it down, whatever. Not that it's not a great roaster (and i would probably replace it) - it's just that I want more consistent and better roasts. The machine, barring an explosion that sends molten metal flying, will not burn anything down if it goes up. It is outside the house. I was planning on separating the heating element from the board it's on, and running it directly off the variac. My only question is what will happen to the rest of the machine. Since the element is cycled on and off, I was hoping a short in the element circuit would not harm the machine.

I have had the machine for over a year, and i've been operating it at 125-127v for over 4 months. I only expected to get a year out of it. The interior light has burned out, and the external screws are rusting out (appear not to be stainless). I do live on a beach though (and leave it outside overnight sometimes).
My roasting history has been heatgun/dogbowl, home-made air roaster, home-made drum roaster, iroast2, and now the behmor. I don't really think roasts can get much better than the best roast i've pulled off the behmor. I frequently buy from ecco, klatch, intelligentsia, to compare my roasts. But as consistent as the behmor is, "guess and press" to time first crack and heat reduction means that I have consistency issues - and while all are good roasts, I want all to be great. Yes, a variac and P1 does the same thing, but i can't seem to drop the element low enough after first crack. I assume undervoltage, as well as overvoltage, could damage the behmor. I probably would want to drop the behmor down to about 70-80 volts to simulate the 60% of P2. Has anyone dropped voltage that low? is there any danger?
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Link to "Modding the behmor"by prof_stack on Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:36 pm

Until I found an outlet with strong voltage in this old house I tried a variac with the Behmor. The 10A fuse didn't take long to blow. But now all is well without the voltage controller and a consistent 121-122V showing on the Kill-A-Watt.

I don't think the Behmor will take much modding without a fight. I would like a new button put on the front marked FIRST CRACK that you push once P1 gets the beans a cracking. Then the temperature would be lowered a little to stretch out the 1C. That is what P2 is supposed to do, with full power at the end to finish off the roast.

The work around is to use P1 on a bean and measure where 1C begins, and then adjust the initial time or time just after beginning P2 to get the drop-off to occur where YOU want it. The BehmorThing software that Ira worked on is perfect for that sort of thing.
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Link to "Modding the behmor"by ira on Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:54 pm

popeye wrote:I see not many adventurous people are out there. I'm willing to sacrifice the behmor. Burn it out, burn it down, whatever. Not that it's not a great roaster (and i would probably replace it) - it's just that I want more consistent and better roasts.


Probably the best way to do that would be to add a couple of switches and a couple of pots to allow you to alter the temperature the control board sees. It's a relatively simple task, but I don't really want to post that info in public as the potential risk(fire) if done wrong is a bit high.

Feel free to contact me off list and if you're not comfortable with messing with wires, I'm just a couple of hour drive from you. My contact info is on the BehmorThing site.

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Link to "Modding the behmor"by coffeecoder on Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:50 pm

popeye wrote:I see not many adventurous people are out there. I'm willing to sacrifice the behmor. Burn it out, burn it down, whatever. Not that it's not a great roaster (and i would probably replace it) - it's just that I want more consistent and better roasts.


Hi popeye,

I can tell you about some of the mods I've made and give you an idea of what's possible but, as Ira correctly points out, if you're not comfortable with electrical work and to a smaller extent electronics, the mods I describe probably aren't worth the hassle/potential safety issues.

A few months back, I set out to: (1) put the Behmor's heating element under manual control; (2) add an environment probe (I tried adding a mass probe but that effort was unsuccessful); and (3) interface the probe and a heater relay switch to a PC, where I could control/monitor the roast through a program I wrote for that purpose. There are two heat control modes: a software PID and a time proportion-based power setting (5% granularity, 10 second cycle seems to work best). Initially, I almost exclusively used the PID mode but more recently, I've switched over to the power mode as I've found that a 'smooth, up and to the right' heat app curve seems to produce a more consistent and better tasting cup in general for the beans I typically roast (<insert ymmv disclaimer here>).

This effort has been largely successful and I do have a degree of control that I didn't have before the mods. That said, the list of hacks required to accomplish it is longer than I originally anticipated and the end result is still inferior to the control/monitoring potential of, say, the Hottop B (albeit at twice the cost). If you're interested in pursuing this route, let me know and I'd be glad to share the specifics of my experience.

Regards,
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Link to "Modding the behmor"by roger_s on Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:59 pm

Hi, John

Glad to see that there's another modder out there. Mine's a pretty simple mod, I have manual control over the heating elements and a digital thermometer that I use sort of like a "tach" to tell me when it's time to bring the heat back on-line via the temperature drop. Lots of interesting things to be done with a B1600 with manual shifting. My general method is to leave the heat on until the start of 1C and turn it off to coast through first crack or until the digital thermometer says I've dropped 10 degrees. On 2C I generally let it heat for 10-20 seconds and then kill the heat for the duration. Very nice FC to FC+ roasts.

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Link to "Modding the behmor"by farmroast on Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:00 am

I did a couple behmor mods before loaning it out to a friend. Added a bean temp probe and faster 50rpm drum motor. For BT I made a new drum hub slightly larger than the original so I could drill it out to fit a thermocouple probe. I used a piece of teflon tube in the new hub for smooth operation. I made 2 bean feed troughs that keep a constant flow of beans around the probe tip. To remove drum I just pull the probe out. Had planned on turning the heat control to manual but haven't got to it.
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Link to "Modding the behmor"by miKe mcKoffee on Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:42 pm

ira wrote:Probably the best way to do that would be to add a couple of switches and a couple of pots to allow you to alter the temperature the control board sees. It's a relatively simple task, but I don't really want to post that info in public as the potential risk(fire) if done wrong is a bit high.

Feel free to contact me off list and if you're not comfortable with messing with wires, I'm just a couple of hour drive from you. My contact info is on the BehmorThing site.

Ira

Last summer when I was playing with a pre-release 1st production run Behmor I split the heater circuit out wired through a toggle switch. This allowed me to run the heater full variac control with rest of the Behmor getting normal line voltage so not slowing or speeding up drum or fans or affecting the electronics. The toggle switch allowed running with full variac heater control or stock. Never got around to splitting out the after-burner circuit or replacing drum motor with higher rpm or figuring out bean temp monitoring method, acquired a CCR HotTop and basically abandoned the Behmor...
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Link to "Modding the behmor"by coffeecoder on Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:19 am

farmroast wrote:I made 2 bean feed troughs that keep a constant flow of beans around the probe tip.


Wow, that's an interesting approach! Does it consistently keep enough mass around the tip to have confidence in the readings? It certainly solves the problem of getting a curved probe in and out of the chamber. Btw, now is a good time to point out that I've been an admirer of your ingenuity ever since I came across your roaster a few months ago... you seem to have a knack for coming up with and implementing (something I struggle with, since I'm about as mechanically inclined as a turnip) simple but novel solutions to common problems. Bravo sir. :)
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Link to "Modding the behmor"by GC7 on Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:00 pm

The Behmor mods mentioned for temperature monitoring, voltage regulation and control of the heater are why I'll be purchasing a HotTop in the very near future.

I hope that second or third generation Behmors take all these requirements into consideration and produce a reliable unit at an affordable cost but for now my mind is made up.
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Link to "Modding the behmor"by coffeecoder on Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:53 pm

I hear what you're saying. To be fair, though, the Behmor isn't targeted at the manual control/monitor crowd. When I was researching first roaster options a year ago, I wasn't sure that I'd still be interested in roasting six months down the road. The Behmor was an easy choice then and I think it still is for anyone in a similar situation - it's easy to use, beginner-friendly, inexpensive and it's still the only off-the-shelf 1lb (ok, 14oz) roaster in it's price range. Manual control/monitor nerds (and I include myself in this group) are likely better served by a homebuilt or something like a Hottop that's relatively mod-friendly (or making the leap to the $4000+ range for a commercial rig). On a more personal level, the "CCR Behmor project" has accelerated my roaster learning curve while combining three of my favorite things: tinkering, writing software and drinking coffee. :wink:
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Link to "Modding the behmor"by farmroast on Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:02 am

I think a totally pimped out Behmor could produce an exceptional roast. I liked the effect of it's heat application to hard centrals.
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Link to "Modding the behmor"by coffeecoder on Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:22 pm

Ha! I don't know why but the phrase "totally pimped out Behmor" tickles me for some reason... however, it occurs to me that this seems to be the right thread to pool our collective experiences/knowledge and come up with <Sunday! Sunday! Sunday! Monster truck rally announcer guy>The Ultimate, ok, ONLY Guide To Pimping Your Behmor </Sunday! Sunday! Sunday! Monster truck rally announcer guy>. :mrgreen: Here, I'll kick it off with the hopes that others will jump in and share their observations, thoughts, ideas, etc...

Temperature Monitoring

It's easy enough to get a probe in the roast chamber to measure environment temperature. The real question here is: "What's the best location to place the probe?" It's tough to answer that question in a general way so let's make the simplifying and reasonable assumption that the measurements will be used as input to the heat control process (which may simply be a human hand turning a variac knob). This implies that a good probe location would be one that experiences the same or similar heat as the beans and will respond as quickly as possible to heat application changes.

The next question that comes up is: "In the airflow path or not?" It seems to be conventional wisdom that an environment probe should be located outside the airflow path in a drum roaster... although I'm not sure the Behmor qualifies as a "drum roaster" with respect to this particular guidance. The airflow path in the Behmor consists of air flowing from two inlets - the big flap in the back and the smaller opening above the top heat element - and out through the exhaust opening in the chamber ceiling when the draw fan is energized. If we want to stay out of the airflow path, that basically means placing the probe away from the inlet and exhaust openings.

A location that seems to meet both criteria is the space between the bottom heat element and the area of the drum where beans gather when it's rotating, about 1" away from the chamber wall (near the location of the stock temp sensor). The heat shield on the back wall comes in handy if you want to wrap a TC wire around the bottom rung a couple times and bend it such that the tip sticks out as close to the drum as possible without touching it (I have a picture of this somewhere, I'll post it later if I remember).

Getting a probe into the bean mass is a bit more tricky due to the completely enclosed drum. It can be done if you have the skills, however, as JohnMoody (http://coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/homeroast/333876) and farmroast have ably demonstrated.

Heat Control

This is the part where we wrestle the Behmor's control and safety features to the ground, acknowledge that equipment and personnel damage may result from doing so and we agree to hold poor TahoeJoe faultless since we took it upon ourselves to hack his nice, well-mannered, consumer-friendly device. If, by adding environment/bean mass probes, we merely voided the warranty, controlling heat application in the Behmor requires voiding the hell out of the warranty.

Actually, it's not quite that bad but there are aspects of the Behmor's control logic that need to be considered. We start with the assumption that heat is the only thing we want to control... I start with this seemingly basic assumption to distinguish the simpler heat control mod from the larger, more encompassing mod where we disable the stock control logic altogether and put everything under manual control - the heater, the drum motor, the cooling fan, the draw fan, the main cooling fan, the afterburner heater, etc.

There are basically two approaches here and the one you select depends to some degree on how you plan to drive the heat control: variac and switched. A nice hybrid variation on this is the one mike points out a few posts back.

For variac control, it's best to split the heating elements from the Behmor's circuitry and power it exclusively through the variac. As others like drdna have pointed out, powering the digital control circuitry with a variac isn't particularly good for the gear nor beneficial in any way. Disconnecting the elements isn't difficult, as quick slide connectors are common on the Behmor's control board.

For switched control, you can either split the heating elements out and power them separately like we did for the variac or keep them in the existing circuit. In either case, we insert a toggle switch or relay in the supply circuit, allowing on/off control of the heating elements.

A description of the stock heat application logic is in order at this point so we can make an intelligent decision as to the degree of heat control we'd like to have (no pun intended). Internally, heat is switched on/off via a mechanical contact relay on the control board. On P1 (full power), the stock logic cycles the heat off at 400f and back on when the temp, as measured by the stock sensor in the chamber wall, drops to 360f. The draw fan seems to be activated at +7:30 and stays on for the remainder of the roast. It's been a while since I dealt with the stock logic and I don't have my [few] notes handy, so I can't recall if the 7:30 is a fixed time or a percentage of the total time. Also, IIRC, the other profiles simply use a lower cycle-off temp, while the cycle-on temp is 360f regardless of profile.

First, the simple approach. By leaving the heating elements in the existing control loop (note that this limits you to switched control), you effectively have partial control over the heat application, or modulated control if you like. Let's say, for example, that you're perfectly happy with the default heat application pattern and all you *really* want is a way to kill the heat at certain times... say, to control a particular phase of the roast. If this is the case, partial control is all you need. Note that this approach precludes the ability to turn the heat on when the default logic has turned it off (technically that's not 100% accurate but it is in the simple approach).

Now, the more involved full control approach. If you're using a variac or you want to be able to profile or you have some other use case that makes partial control undesirable, the first thing you should do is liberate the Behmor from it's stock temp sensor. In addition to feeding the heat control loop, the control logic uses the sensor to detect an overheat condition (which, IIRC, is ~410f) and a too-hot-to-start condition (which, IIRC, is ~175f). It'd be great if you could simply unplug the molex connector for the temp sensor from the control board, but alas, the Behmor won't start if it doesn't detect the sensor. The easiest solution is to move the sensor from the chamber wall to outside the roaster so it always measures room temp, effectively disabling it. Taking the stock sensor out of the picture has done a couple things for us. First, it prevents the control logic from shutting down the roaster at an inopportune time. Second, it allows us to preheat the chamber before putting the beans in (something that's normally difficult to do given the too-hot-to-start check). And third (ok, a few things), we can stick a switch/relay in the existing heat circuit and - unlike the partial control arrangement and so long as we always use P1 - have full control over the heat since P1 profile+room temp sensor=heat power is always on as far as the control logic is concerned.

Great, so now we have full control over the heat right? Eh, not completely. The draw fan is still being controlled by the stock logic, which means it will dutifully cycle on at seven and half minutes into the roast and *KERCHUNK* there goes that nice smooth heat curve you've been working on thanks to the sudden 20 degree drop in ET. Is that really such a big deal considering that the default heat application logic regularly causes 40 degree drops? I'd have to defer to someone with superior roast/flavor chemistry knowledge (virtually anyone here I would imagine) to answer that question with any kind of technical accuracy. However, I would have to assume that if you've gone through the trouble of placing the heater under manual control, not having manual control of the draw control as well would be irksome to say the least. Fortunately, splitting the draw fan off and putting it on a switch is trivial since it's an AC fan. Speed control is also an option here, although I've had limited success with the only fan speed switch that I had handy at the time that I was fiddling with it.

Ok, I think that covers the basics from my admittedly limited perspective. Hopefully there's something of value here as a starting point and others will add to it.
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Link to "Modding the behmor"by MellowCat on Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:20 pm

Nice thread.
Couldn't help but thinking, there's a good project going on over at coffeetime uk
http://www.phpbber.com/phpbb/portal.php?mforum=coffetimeboard

and a more detailed discussion on the wiki http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/gene-cafe-dimmer-control-mod-stage-1

on attaching a dimmer switch (as in a lighting dimmer) to control heat output on a Gene Cafe, rather than having a huge variac laying around each time you roast.

Was thinking this might be applicable to modding the Behmor and getting direct adjustable control over the heating elements.
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